Help me understand the reasoning of modern optics

[WeiserBucks]

Sure , i can understand that and wouldnt disagree with either. Everyone has their own preferences. Im just saying there are people who wont buy a scope because it doesn’t have locking turrets. There probably isnt many people that wont buy a scope they want because it does have locking turrets.

Doesn't change what is available on the market. Choose the features you require and move forward.

 

[Kurts86]

No i get your point on fov. And yes leupold are pretty well junk anymore. But you cannot tell me that a locking turret is not better and that the majority of people looking for a hunting scope (not target) wouldnt prefer locking. And i cant imagine someone not buying a scope because it has locking turrets.

Leupold sued Nightforce over side locking turrets. The lawyers ruined it for the engineers and consumers.

Case Documents
https://casetext.com/case/leupold-stevens-inc-v-lightforce-usa-inc-4

Leupold Patent expires 2033
https://patents.google.com/patent/US9188408B2/en?oq=9188408

Leupold Patent expires 2032
thttps://patents.google.com/patent/US9170068B2/en?oq=9170068

 

[cocky84]

Leupold sued Nightforce over side locking turrets. The lawyers ruined it for the engineers and consumers.

Case Documents
https://casetext.com/case/leupold-stevens-inc-v-lightforce-usa-inc-4

Leupold Patent expires 2033
https://patents.google.com/patent/US9188408B2/en?oq=9188408

Leupold Patent expires 2032
thttps://patents.google.com/patent/US9170068B2/en?oq=9170068

Those sons a bitches!!! That explains a lot.

 

[SDHNTR]

You are mentally fabricating a problem where one really doesn’t exist. There are plenty of scopes out there also with capped dials. If you’re worried about it, leave the cap on, if you’re not and may need to use the dial, just drop the cap in your pocket. And again, there’s always that strip of electrical tape.

Find the other features you want in a scope. There’s a million other things far more important.

 

[cocky84]

You are mentally fabricating a problem where one really doesn’t exist. There are plenty of scopes out there also with capped dials. If you’re worried about it, leave the cap on, if you’re not and may need to use the dial, just drop the cap in your pocket. And again, there’s always that strip of electrical tape.

Find the other features you want in a scope. There’s a million other things far more important.

Im really not fabricating something that has literally happened before to me personally and several other people ive talked to.

 

[mlevimadden]

You already have good responses on why FFP.

I prefer an exposed elevation turret, because I always dial for elevation. It's very quick when you have a 100 yd zero and know you need to spin to 0.5 MIL for 200 yds and 1.0 MIL for 300 yds. Past that I usually have a bit more time to pull out my phone lock screen for reference. It easier for me to do that than try to remember reticle sub tensions in the heat of the moment.

I've never had an exposed elevation turret incidentally spun on a hunt, so I don't see the need for a locking turret currently.

 

[cocky84]

You already have good responses on why FFP.

I prefer an exposed elevation turret, because I always dial for elevation. It's very quick when you have a 100 yd zero and know you need to spin to 0.5 MIL for 200 yds and 1.0 MIL for 300 yds. Past that I usually have a bit more time to pull out my phone lock screen for reference. It easier for me to do that than try to remember reticle sub tensions in the heat of the moment.

I've never had an exposed elevation turret incidentally spun on a hunt, so I don't see the need for a locking turret currently.

Im really glad to hear that not many people are having issues with turret spinning on them. That makes me feel way more confident in getting one since most the scopes im looking at don’t lock.
Just that when ya have a bad experience with something its hard to go back to it. Although it was several years ago and not near the quality im looking at now, it still sticks in my head.

Oh and i totally understand the benefits of ffp. Be great for lots of things. I am/was more wondering why someone would need both. I dont see myself dialing in then using the reticle or vise versa. But then someone said it makes it easy to track misses. And that definitely makes the most sense, something i hadnt thought of before.
Thanks

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Sometimes my elevation turret gets spun a little at times but I'm regularly looking at that and with a zero stop or rev indicator I can easily get it back to zero. Anytime I take my rifle off my pack to set up for a shot or still hunt as I walk I glance at it. If it routinely spun a notable amount I'd put some tape on it that I could easily strip off for a shot.

Now I absolutely got burned by the windage knob spinning on a scope before I started taping all mine that don't lock (bushnell lrts lock for instance) or are capped. In that instance I saw the windage appeared to be 1/4 turn off but it was really 3/4 turn off and I proceeded to adjust it to a full turn off naively... needless to say I missed a shot WIDE. But I learned from that and tape all the scopes that need it and the problem is easily solved.

 

[cocky84]

Sometimes my elevation turret gets spun a little at times but I'm regularly looking at that and with a zero stop or rev indicator I can easily get it back to zero. Anytime I take my rifle off my pack to set up for a shot or still hunt as I walk I glance at it. If it routinely spun a notable amount I'd put some tape on it that I could easily strip off for a shot.

Now I absolutely got burned by the windage knob spinning on a scope before I started taping all mine that don't lock (bushnell lrts lock for instance) or are capped. In that instance I saw the windage appeared to be 1/4 turn off but it was really 3/4 turn off and I proceeded to adjust it to a full turn off naively... needless to say I missed a shot WIDE. But I learned from that and tape all the scopes that need it and the problem is easily solved.

Yeah that will make ya want to kick rocks. It just seems like such a simple fix to know your dial is where ya left it. But as someone posted above, there have been lawsuits when other companies put them on. Such a bummer.

 

[SDHNTR]

Im really glad to hear that not many people are having issues with turret spinning on them. That makes me feel way more confident in getting one since most the scopes im looking at don’t lock.
Just that when ya have a bad experience with something its hard to go back to it. Although it was several years ago and not near the quality im looking at now, it still sticks in my head.

Oh and i totally understand the benefits of ffp. Be great for lots of things. I am/was more wondering why someone would need both. I dont see myself dialing in then using the reticle or vise versa. But then someone said it makes it easy to track misses. And that definitely makes the most sense, something i hadnt thought of before.
Thanks

Wind is important to consider. Even if you dial for elevation, you would (should) be using the reticle for wind. So you absolutely would be dialling in AND using the reticle.

 

[cocky84]

Wind is important to consider. Even if you dial for elevation, you would (should) be using the reticle for wind. So you absolutely would be dialling in AND using the reticle.

Yep which is why i think a windplex reticle in ffp would be great.
Imo perfect hunting scope would be 2 to 3 - 10 to 15ish mag. 40 to 44 mm obj.
FFP simple windage reticle with capped windage turrets.
Exposed locking elevation turret with nothing in reticle for elevation.
And small illuminated red dot.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Yep which is why i think a windplex reticle in ffp would be great.
Imo perfect hunting scope would be 2 to 3 - 10 to 15ish mag. 40 to 44 mm obj.
FFP simple windage reticle with capped windage turrets.
Exposed locking elevation turret with nothing in reticle for elevation.
And small illuminated red dot.

Doesn't exist. So, what are you going to buy?

 

[cocky84]

Wind is important to consider. Even if you dial for elevation, you would (should) be using the reticle for wind. So you absolutely would be dialling in AND using the reticle.

It almost sounds like you are trying to make it sound like im saying you dont need to account for wind? Or that fov is not important? That is not at all what im trying to say. Im saying that if im have an exposed turret that is designed for dialing, i see no reason to clutter things up with a Christmas tree in my view. And vise versa, if i do like shooting holdovers with a reticle then there is no reason to have a exposed turrets.
Now i do understand that lots of guys want the option for both which is great. I just find it weird that in a market were there are thousands of options for scopes, nobody is offering this option.

 

[cocky84]

Doesn't exist. So, what are you going to buy?

Yeah i know it doesn’t exist. Im just asking why it doesn’t. Seems like a pretty logical question. The closest thing to it is probably the number one selling hunting scope in America. Unfortunately its not very reliable.

 

[S.Clancy]

Alot of this stuff is personal preference based on your style. Some isn't.

I prefer SFP as my max scope power is 10x. This is sufficient to 700-800 yards for me, which is farther than I will shoot an animal.

I prefer an MOA reticle that is uncluttered. I prefer BDC style drops, tho, I really only use the crosshair and the first BDC drop. Anything more than that, I am dialing.

I prefer to zero my rifle at 300 yds. I have a max point blank of 330-340 or so with this method. I just like being able to shoot fast out to that distance.

I prefer to dial past 400 and like capped turrets as they decrease "Murphy's law". Sure, they are slower, but it is really rare that I have a shot past 400 yards that is in any way rushed.

I get the purpose for FFP, but for my style and preferences it makes no sense

 

[WeiserBucks]

Yeah i know it doesn’t exist. Im just asking why it doesn’t.

It doesn't exist because the people who sell scopes don't think they need to offer it, they make scopes, say they're the best and market them to the masses.

 

[cocky84]

Alot of this stuff is personal preference based on your style. Some isn't.

I prefer SFP as my max scope power is 10x. This is sufficient to 700-800 yards for me, which is farther than I will shoot an animal.

I prefer an MOA reticle that is uncluttered. I prefer BDC style drops, tho, I really only use the crosshair and the first BDC drop. Anything more than that, I am dialing.

I prefer to zero my rifle at 300 yds. I have a max point blank of 330-340 or so with this method. I just like being able to shoot fast out to that distance.

I prefer to dial past 400 and like capped turrets as they decrease "Murphy's law". Sure, they are slower, but it is really rare that I have a shot past 400 yards that is in any way rushed.

I get the purpose for FFP, but for my style and preferences it makes no sense

I agree with everything you said and everything about your setup makes logical sense to me.

 

[cocky84]

It doesn't exist because the people who sell scopes don't think they need to offer it, they make scopes, say they're the best and market them to the masses.

Yep and most people just buy em because some influencer or guy on a forum said it was the best instead of asking questions about why i would ever need this.

 

[cocky84]

It doesn't exist because the people who sell scopes don't think they need to offer it, they make scopes, say they're the best and market them to the masses.

Im convinced if a company made a ffp standard duplex scope and got influencers to tell you its the latest and greatest, people would buy em.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Im convinced if a company made a ffp standard duplex scope and got influencers to tell you its the latest and greatest, people would buy em.

You're not wrong, people in general are incredibly ignorant and do zero research before they buy anything.