Help with sizing

Ktwebb33

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Nov 26, 2019
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Can someone help me understand something.

I’m reloading for a Ruger Ranch 6.5 Grendel. 2x or 3x shot brass comes out ~1.212 using the Hornady headspace guage. Running the brass through a Lee full length sizing die (1/4 past contact), it comes out to ~1.215/6. I know this rifle starts getting a tight bolt closure at ~1.218.

My question is, is the brass simply not fully formed to my rifle’s chamber? And the full length sizing die is actually stretching it some during the sizing process. Just wanting to wrap my head around it, so I can do what’s best and extend the life of my brass the best I can.
 
Are you lubing the inside of the necks well? Sometimes the expander can pull the shoulder forward a bit if it doesn’t have enough lube.
 
Are you lubing the inside of the necks well? Sometimes the expander can pull the shoulder forward a bit if it doesn’t have enough lube.
No. I use Hornady unique, and just apply a thin layer to the outside of the case.
Maybe I should start using a spray lube.

Being 6 thousands of with the shoulder doesn’t bother be. It’s a hunting rifle, and I shoot steel around my place.

Just curious why it hasn’t, or how long it will take to fully form to the chamber.
 
No. I use Hornady unique, and just apply a thin layer to the outside of the case.
That’s what I would try then. Your shoulder won’t grow by forcing it into a sizing die- but it can grow when trying to pull the neck over the expander button.

It doesn’t take much lube on the inside of the case.
 
Not an expert by any means but I have experienced the same thing and I believe your sizing die is stretching the case out when you are on the up cycle. Somebody on here that truly knows will give you the likely culprit.
 
I’m reloading for a Ruger Ranch 6.5 Grendel. 2x or 3x shot brass comes out ~1.212 using the Hornady headspace guage.
Not really sure about this one. Was this brass fired in a different chamber, or the one you're reloading for?
How was it sized for the first 2-3 firings?
Did you use the same insert in the headspace gauge to take all these measurements?

Running the brass through a Lee full length sizing die (1/4 past contact), it comes out to ~1.215/6. I know this rifle starts getting a tight bolt closure at ~1.218.

My question is, is the brass simply not fully formed to my rifle’s chamber? And the full length sizing die is actually stretching it some during the sizing process. Just wanting to wrap my head around it, so I can do what’s best and extend the life of my brass the best I can.
Typically when brass comes out of a FL sizing die with a larger headspace measurement it's because the die starts sizing the base but isn't bumping the shoulders back yet. The brass has to go somewhere so the case is elongated. I run into this all the time incrementally adjusting and setting up my sizing dies for .002/3" shoulder bump. If you know the bolt gets resistance at 1.218" and they're coming out of the sizing die at 1.215/6", I consider that perfect and as long as they chamber and extract smooth I would load and shoot them, and then address it further.

If you run into issues after the next firing, it could be a slightly undersized chamber or oversized die, and not uncommon to have to surface grind a shellholder (or buy a competition set), or a couple thou off the base of a cheap FL die to get it to size correctly.
 
Lubing the neck is part of the issue . Start there. But I think your real problem is you just haven’t screwed the die down enough to touch the shoulder yet. Look at the brass out of the die. I bet there are run marks on the bottom half of the case. You are squeezing the diameter and pushing that brass material up into the shoulder length, and then the die hasn’t started to touch the shoulder of the brass to size it down yet.
 
Not really sure about this one. Was this brass fired in a different chamber, or the one you're reloading for?
How was it sized for the first 2-3 firings?
Did you use the same insert in the headspace gauge to take all these measurements?


Typically when brass comes out of a FL sizing die with a larger headspace measurement it's because the die starts sizing the base but isn't bumping the shoulders back yet. The brass has to go somewhere so the case is elongated. I run into this all the time incrementally adjusting and setting up my sizing dies for .002/3" shoulder bump. If you know the bolt gets resistance at 1.218" and they're coming out of the sizing die at 1.215/6", I consider that perfect and as long as they chamber and extract smooth I would load and shoot them, and then address it further.

If you run into issues after the next firing, it could be a slightly undersized chamber or oversized die, and not uncommon to have to surface grind a shellholder (or buy a competition set), or a couple thou off the base of a cheap FL die to get it to size correctly.
Thank you. Very good explanation.

The brass all started as factory Hornady brass, and have only been shot in this gun.
I have always set up my Lee FL die 1/4 past contact with the shell holder. Only recently have I gotten the Hornady headspace comparator and actually started taking measurements.
Which is what has lead me to realize that factory Hornady black 123 eldm is typically ~1.209
Coming out of my gun they were ~1.212
FL size per manual comes out to ~1.215/6

I will pay close attention and measure these 1.215/6’s after my next firing. If they stretch past that, and my die keeps sized them back to 1.215/6 again, I’ll likely call it good and be happy with that
 
Lubing the neck is part of the issue . Start there. But I think your real problem is you just haven’t screwed the die down enough to touch the shoulder yet. Look at the brass out of the die. I bet there are run marks on the bottom half of the case. You are squeezing the diameter and pushing that brass material up into the shoulder length, and then the die hasn’t started to touch the shoulder of the brass to size it down yet.
If this is the case, and I know I’m not getting hard bolt closure until 1.2185, I guess it’s not a bad thing that the die is stretching it?
 
Typically when brass comes out of a FL sizing die with a larger headspace measurement it's because the die starts sizing the base but isn't bumping the shoulders back yet. The brass has to go somewhere so the case is elongated. I run into this all the time incrementally adjusting and setting up my sizing dies for .002/3" shoulder bump. If you know the bolt gets resistance at 1.218" and they're coming out of the sizing die at 1.215/6", I consider that perfect and as long as they chamber and extract smooth I would load and shoot them, and then address it further.

If you run into issues after the next firing, it could be a slightly undersized chamber or oversized die, and not uncommon to have to surface grind a shellholder (or buy a competition set), or a couple thou off the base of a cheap FL die to get it to size correctly.
I think Harvey has likely hit the mark here. Sounds like the brass body is getting sized but the die isn't touching the shoulder so the brass is growing in that void. I would think a 1/8-1/4 turn more at a time will eventually get the shoulder back to the desired amount.
 
I think Harvey has likely hit the mark here. Sounds like the brass body is betting sized but the die isn't touching the shoulder so the brass is growing in that void. I would think a 1/8-1/4 turn more at a time will eventually get the shoulder back to the desired amount.
So if I’m understanding it right, I just need to keep doing what I’m doing unless the brass starts coming out of the die at more than 1.215/6…that’s about where I believe I need to be for my chamber. If the die continues to stretch it the next sizing or two, beyond the current 1.215/6, I’ll start turning the die in 1/8-1/4 more at a time until it gets the shoulder back to where I want it.
 
So if I’m understanding it right, I just need to keep doing what I’m doing unless the brass starts coming out of the die at more than 1.215/6…that’s about where I believe I need to be for my chamber. If the die continues to stretch it the next sizing or two, beyond the current 1.215/6, I’ll start turning the die in 1/8-1/4 more at a time until it gets the shoulder back to where I want it.
Exactly if your brass is growing in the die, no matter what the directions say, you need to thread the die in more
 
So if I’m understanding it right, I just need to keep doing what I’m doing unless the brass starts coming out of the die at more than 1.215/6…that’s about where I believe I need to be for my chamber. If the die continues to stretch it the next sizing or two, beyond the current 1.215/6, I’ll start turning the die in 1/8-1/4 more at a time until it gets the shoulder back to where I want it.
Yep. Thread the die deeper 1/8-1/4 turn at a time until you get a measurement .002-.003 shorter than what it measures coming out of the gun.
 
Smoke the brass shoulder by running it thru a wax candle flame. You will easily see when there is die contact as it will mark the soot on the case shoulder.
Competition shell holders are good for fine adj.

1 turn of a 7/8-14 die body in the press is .0714
1/8 turn is .0089
1/16 turn is .0045
 
Can someone help me understand something.

I’m reloading for a Ruger Ranch 6.5 Grendel. 2x or 3x shot brass comes out ~1.212 using the Hornady headspace guage. Running the brass through a Lee full length sizing die (1/4 past contact), it comes out to ~1.215/6. I know this rifle starts getting a tight bolt closure at ~1.218.

My question is, is the brass simply not fully formed to my rifle’s chamber? And the full length sizing die is actually stretching it some during the sizing process. Just wanting to wrap my head around it, so I can do what’s best and extend the life of my brass the best I can.
You need to lube the inside of your case neck when sizing or the case can grow as the mandrel is drawn back out.
By 2 or 3 firings the brass should be fully fireformed, if your 3x fireformed brass measures 1.212 it shouldnt even chamber at all at 1.218... something is inconsistent here. In my experience, if your not annealing after every firing your shoulder bumping/sizing will never be very consistent.

I would lube the neck ID, and anneal. If your 3x brass comes out at 1.212 I would bump the shoulder to 1.210 max or maybe target 1.207 for tolerance. Most people can squeeze +/-.003" out of calipers depending on the mood of the day.
 
Yep. Thread the die deeper 1/8-1/4 turn at a time until you get a measurement .002-.003 shorter than what it measures coming out of the gun.
It’s coming out of the gun 1.212.
Best I can tell, I get a stiff bolt closure about 1.218.
If I bumped it .003 out of the current length, it would be 1.209
Wouldn’t I be better off keeping it around the 1.215/6 mark?
 
Are you shooting reduced loads? If your cases are sized to 1.215/6, then come out of the gun at 1.212, that's a sign of low pressure. With normal pressure loads, the cases should come out at 1.218 or so.

And yes size them to 1.215/6 if they chamber easy at that length.
 
Are you shooting reduced loads? If your cases are sized to 1.215/6, then come out of the gun at 1.212, that's a sign of low pressure. With normal pressure loads, the cases should come out at 1.218 or so.

And yes size them to 1.215/6 if they chamber easy at that length.
No
Cfe223 30.3gr (book max)
CBTO 1.661
No presssure signs
 
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