How to find out where registered outfitter camps are, to avoid issues?

[lifeisgoodsteve]

Hi All,

Going to be taking my couple mules to scout and hunt some new to me areas this year and really would like to avoid the outfitter camps if possible.

Anyone know how I can find out where they are here in Montana?

I can identify sprcific areas I plan to camp and hunt so they know I’m not fishing for where to hunt.

I really would rather not spend a ton of time scouting and then come opening day find a big ol’ outfitter camp in the middle of that area.

National Forest would know, or…?

Thanks,

S

 

[Timberline001]

Which state?

 

[BigAntlerGetter]

CO outfitter here, yes I know outfitter on the forums grab the torches and pitch forks.

So call the USFS or BLM, if you know where you’re going you will know who to call, you can ask for coordinates to outfitter camps, or ask for outfitter permitted in that area.

At that point you will either have coordinates of their camp or you have general idea of outfitter in that area, call the outfitter, if you call me telling me ur plan, I will tell you roughly where my camp is and how many hunters I’ll have in the area. To me this if for me; you and my clients. I’ll try to either save you the time of packing in there and being disappointed, saving my clients getting over run and also know who may be in there. I’m not gonna tell you that you can’t go in there, it’s public land to me. I just like to know who may be in there and also let you know that I’ll have this many people myself. Win win for all of us right?


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[lifeisgoodsteve]

Which state?

Western Montana

 

[Caseknife]

Forest Service or Fish and Game should know who outfits in the are and where they usually set up.

 

[lifeisgoodsteve]

CO outfitter here, yes I know outfitter on the forums grab the torches and pitch forks.

So call the USFS or BLM, if you know where you’re going you will know who to call, you can ask for coordinates to outfitter camps, or ask for outfitter permitted in that area.

At that point you will either have coordinates of their camp or you have general idea of outfitter in that area, call the outfitter, if you call me telling me ur plan, I will tell you roughly where my camp is and how many hunters I’ll have in the area. To me this if for me; you and my clients. I’ll try to either save you the time of packing in there and being disappointed, saving my clients getting over run and also know who may be in there. I’m not gonna tell you that you can’t go in there, it’s public land to me. I just like to know who may be in there and also let you know that I’ll have this many people myself. Win win for all of us right?


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Awesome, thanks.

Yes it’s in a National Forest so I’ll give them a ring.

I have a number of prime areas I want to camp, scout and hunt so if possible I’d like to avoid outfitters altogether, so we are all happy. You nailed my reasoning as figure it’s good for everyone.

 

[jmez]

When you are scouting you should be able to tell where Outfitter and or established camps are located. They both tend to put them in the same spots every year and will be close to trails. It isn't a huge secret when you come onto one out of season.

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[Timberline001]

I guide in Idaho and I’m not sure how outfitters are dispersed in Montana. However from my time hunting in western Montana and guiding just over the border in Idaho I really wouldnt be concerned about it. Even if they do have a camp near you they’re not going to be in the way anymore than any of the other hunters. I would scout as normal and have plans A-D or as many as you can get in case you find pressure that effects your hunt (sometimes you can use other people in the backcountry to your advantage). Just my 2 cents.

One of my favorite basins I archery hunt in Idaho has an outfitters drop camp every year and we’ve been successful in there twice and gotten into elk lots of other times. Some years I’ve checked the basin and the elk weren’t there and some years are great in there even with the outfitters hunting it every day of season.

 

[BigAntlerGetter]

Just to clarify, public land is the same for an outfitter as it is for anyone else. There's no such thing as a "registered outfitter camp", just a "registered outfitter." There's no database of camps and they don't give the USFS coordinates of where they are anymore than you do. Folks who "know the area" (which may or may not include game wardens, USFS personnel, etc.) may have a pretty good working knowledge of where the camps tend to be, but more because outfitters often run into them quite a bit and folks get to chatting. Not because the outfitters have any obligation to disclose precise details or the personnel are collecting specific data.

My experience has been outfitters tend to be pretty chatty and open about where they'll be. It does them no good to have 45 random folks from out of state tromping around a nice area they just set some clients up in. The ones I've run into, mostly on horseback on the way to or from a pack-in, will often share better detail than anybody else. Why not? If they tell you a basin is covered already you're less lucky to tromp through a sit one of their customers has set up and maybe you'll remember them favorably some day.

IMO the best way to know where the camps are is to simply chat as many folks at the trailhead as you can, and when you hike in, hike slow and step off the trail for any pack strings walking by. If you hail them as they pass my experience has been most are extremely polite and will take 30 seconds to give you some input. You'll learn more than calling any office anywhere.

So CO you have registered outfitter camps…. Your camps are set up in those locations, exact locations…. I mean my permit shows 13 registered camp Locations with GPS coordinates. Sounds like the guys you talk to aren’t legal lol. Outfitters have registered sites, it’s a full deal. Contrary to popular belief it is heavily regulated least in CO it is on public lands.

Public land is not open for outfitters they have their permit area to provide services, then they do have their registered camp locations for drop camps and guided camps, sure I’ve seen outfitters going where they please and setting up where they please but they don’t last long once legal and legit outfitters catch wind, or they get a more by the book USFS rep


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[Timberline001]

So CO you have registered outfitter camps…. Your camps are set up in those locations, exact locations…. I mean my permit shows 13 registered camp Locations with GPS coordinates. Sounds like the guys you talk to aren’t legal lol. Outfitters have registered sites, it’s a full deal. Contrary to popular belief it is heavily regulated least in CO it is on public lands.

Public land is not open for outfitters they have their permit area to provide services, then they do have their registered camp locations for drop camps and guided camps, sure I’ve seen outfitters going where they please and setting up where they please but they don’t last long once legal and legit outfitters catch wind, or they get a more by the book USFS rep


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In Idaho we have a large zone we can guide in and we can put up camps and guide clients anywhere within that zone. Most guide areas are a majority of a game unit. I’m not 100% but I’m pretty sure Montana doesn’t operate like Colorado in that aspect.

 

[taskswap]

So CO you have registered outfitter camps…. Your camps are set up in those locations, exact locations…. I mean my permit shows 13 registered camp Locations with GPS coordinates. Sounds like the guys you talk to aren’t legal lol. Outfitters have registered sites, it’s a full deal. Contrary to popular belief it is heavily regulated least in CO it is on public lands.

Public land is not open for outfitters they have their permit area to provide services, then they do have their registered camp locations for drop camps and guided camps, sure I’ve seen outfitters going where they please and setting up where they please but they don’t last long once legal and legit outfitters catch wind, or they get a more by the book USFS rep

You're right, my reply was wrong for a lot of states. I took it down.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Call the local USFS Ranger District Office. You may need to file a FOIA to get all of the permitted camp locations.

 

[PNWGATOR]

Ditto calling the Forest Service Ranger District Office. I’ve done this in the past in Idaho and have been given specific coordinates for all of the outfitter‘s camps in the area they were permitted to operate in.

 

[TaperPin]

I really would rather not spend a ton of time scouting and then come opening day find a big ol’ outfitter camp in the middle of that area.

I never underestimate the ability of a nearby outfitter to make hunting interesting. We camp at the same place every year - a cold camp with tent mostly in the trees, but easy enough to see from the ridge above, so it’s no secrete we’re always there. One year a guide brought a client within 500 yards of our camp to shoot a young/small 4x4 buck. Ahole. There are many more stories, but it would get my blood pressure up just thinking about it. Hopefully karma catches up with the chief ahole, who encourages the hired aholes to be aholes. I used to send clients his way, but that will never happen again.

 

[lifeisgoodsteve]

Update:
Was referred to a specific person in one of the ranger offices who is the permit administrator. They were super helpful!!

Helped understand who had permits for overnight outfitting, and where the camps were registered for. Also helped understand trail conditions for stock, with one I had planned to use being inaccessible due to all the deadfall.

Turns out here in MT outfitters need to apply for specific dates they will be at the camps, then supposed to post signs at them before the season, giving the public a heads up.

Also learned one of my areas has no permitted outfitter for overnights, just day hunting. So she asked if I see any overnight outfitters to please let the rangers know.

So it was all good.

Now I just have to get my mules and myself in shape!

 

[bisblue]

Permits can vary national forest to national forest in terms of permit stipulations for camp locations, group size, number of stock, days allowed, etc... Then they can vary based on wilderness vs non wilderness etc..

 

[Geewhiz]

"Hey there, I was just wondering where you like to hunt, you know, so I can not go there"

 

[lifeisgoodsteve]

Permits can vary national forest to national forest in terms of permit stipulations for camp locations, group size, number of stock, days allowed, etc... Then they can vary based on wilderness vs non wilderness etc..

Yes, seemed like each forest will have its own permit administrator or similar person.

So people should contact the forest offices directly to ask who they should speak to.