How to level rifle before leveling scope

[chizelhead]

Another system is the Wheeler leveling kit. I set my rifle in the cleaning stand to level. A vise would work as well.

 

[Matt5266]

I use the wheeler leveling kit and a plumb Bob. I attach a bubble level to my scope during this time too. Must be how I shoulder a rifle or I have slightly too low of rings but I swear my reticle is always canted when everything is "level".

 

[Choupique]

Is eyeballing good enough? Yes! Does it annoy the piss out of me when a week later I notice the 5ish degree offset from eyeballing for some reason? Also yes.

Right. What really matters with a roof is that it keeps the rain out, but a roof that's out of square drives me insane. I got a few minor tisms and stuff not being square / plumb is definitely one of them.

 

[nm.otter]

If you use a scope level on your rifle and check it prior to every shot you will probably observe that your natural cant is not consistent.

...and (with practice) it does get better over time.

My UM Tikka dovetail level may (or may not) be off by a degree (or three) with regard to the action, but it's torqued down solid and dead nuts to the reticle. That's all I care about.

 

[wind gypsy]

Is eyeballing good enough? Yes! Does it annoy the piss out of me when a week later I notice the 5ish degree offset from eyeballing for some reason?

So you can do focused eyeballing of it and mount it to look as plumb to bore as you could visually discern but then days down the road you know its canted just from shouldering and looking through your optic after the fact? How does that work?

 

[Marbles]

So you can do focused eyeballing of it and mount it to look as plumb to bore as you could visually discern but then days down the road you know its canted just from shouldering and looking through your optic after the fact? How does that work?

Well, I have days, weeks, months too look at it in various settings, rather than a few minutes in a single setting.

Eyeballing is rather flawed. The same flaws can make something set correctly look off. An extra 30 seconds spares a lot of potential annoyance for me and is much less effort than repeatedly reminding myself why it is good enough.

 

[Harvey_NW]

Well, I have days, weeks, months too look at it in various settings, rather than a few minutes in a single setting.

Eyeballing is rather flawed. The same flaws can make something set correctly look off. An extra 30 seconds spares a lot of potential annoyance for me and is much less effort than repeatedly reminding myself why it is good enough.
View attachment 955363

When I purposely unfocus my eyes I can easily tell they're parallel, but when they're focused they look canted as hell. And now I can't get them refocused and feel cross eyed the night before rifle elk opener. Thanks.

I'll just aim for the right one, that's my dominant eye. I was good to 1,000 before season

 

[Mike D Texas]

If you mount a lot of scopes, the final level from SAC along with a plumb bob and flashlight works fast and accurate.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[bnewt3]

Having watched a bunch of videos on this and gone through this with some different rifles/scopes, ill share a few things ive picked up.

I like Paramount Tactical's tutorial on this. Available on YT and Rumble. I find Gary to be arrogant and a bit abrasive but I cant fault his conclusions or method.

1) Whatever method you use, if you are shooting at any significant distance(generally anything beyond MPBR), you need to do a tall target test after mounting the scope to confirm that your reticle/erector are true to the housing. It is possible that reticle and/or erector are not true to the housing which means when you dial elevation or hold elevation in a graduated reticle, you are inadvertently inducing windage and vice versa(another Paramount Tactical video illustrates this). Because of this, leveling based on the reticle (such as plumb bob, etc) is not the most reliable method. It can absolutely work if everything is true, just confirm with tall target test. If the housing and reticle/erector are not true, send the scope back.

2) if you have anything with cant, such as a 20 MOA rail or a mount or rings with cant built in, you HAVE TO level off of the rail/mount/rings, not the receiver.

3) There is a wide range in accuracy/effectiveness/readability of bubble levels. Many have the lines set significantly wider than the bubble so eyeballing level can be difficult and on all bubble levels parallax is an issue so make sure you are directly in line with the level. Also the smaller the bubble level, the harder it is to get things perfect. You can compare a small level against a long(like a good 24" carpenter's level) to check accuracy and see the effect of small changes.

4) an electronic level that reads degrees(preferably .1 degrees) may be a better option, also something like a SG Pulse or MDT LRA SendIt fall into this category. SG Pulse is significantly less expensive than the MDT. The SG and MDT can be far more precise at leveling the rifle than any bubble level and then you have that same leveling precision when shooting.

5) the flat bottom of the scope housing can be a good place to level off of but can be hard to use in practice(see #6 for a potential exception). To get around this you can put the flat bottom on a confirmed level surface, put a level on the turret and turn the turret until you find a level reading, then use the turret as your level reference as you install(assuming you have a flat turret for the level to sit).

6) leveling wedges CAN work but can be limited by your particular setup. Some mounts dont have a suitable flat spot under the scope for the wedge to reference. I have found that 0 MOA rings on a rail(with or without cant) generally work, as well as a flat-top receiver(such as Tikka) with rings(must be 0 MOA) typically work, a one-piece mount may not work. The main advantage to wedges is that you dont need any levels, bubble or otherwise anywhere(unless you add a tube-mounted bubble level) to get the scope mounted correctly. But, again, a tall target test after mounting is required to confirm that the guts match the housing. And of course wedges are only as good as the accuracy of the machining used to make them(mainly that the angles perfectly complement each other to form 2 perfectly parallel surfaces)........but manufacturing tolerance/variance applies to any level.

In the future I am going to get a Tipton Ultra Gun Vise which has adjustability to level the whole vise after clamping the rifle. That will serve as my scope mounting platform.

 

[wind gypsy]

If you mount a lot of scopes, the final level from SAC along with a plumb bob and flashlight works fast and accurate.

Good reminder. I have one but have only ever used it as a static mount to do tracking tests.

 

[Lawnboi]

I just try to level to the rail and call it good. I just need to know my reticle/erector is plumb when it says it’s level. I try to keep my action as level as I can but really don’t relate anything to the bore.

Litz had an article on this a while ago and the scope not being perfectly plumb to the bore resulted in next to nothing in deviation.

 

[Choupique]

Litz had an article on this a while ago and the scope not being perfectly plumb to the bore resulted in next to nothing in deviation.

Unless you have a canted rail, the error due to the reticle not intersecting the bore is only the distance from the reticle post to the centerline of the bore.

I've been out of college a while now, but if I did this correctly a 0* base, scope mounted 3" above the bore and 3* off of intersection with the bore centerline, the error would be 0.15"

It's a tremendously minuscule factor in where the bullet will actually land once everything is taken into consideration and it does in fact not really matter EXCEPT that all it would take is a stupid reference mark to make it a non issue and I want my damn reference mark.

 

[Jordan Smith]

Unless you have a canted rail, the error due to the reticle not intersecting the bore is only the distance from the reticle post to the centerline of the bore.

I've been out of college a while now, but if I did this correctly a 0* base, scope mounted 3" above the bore and 3* off of intersection with the bore centerline, the error would be 0.15"

It's a tremendously minuscule factor in where the bullet will actually land once everything is taken into consideration and it does in fact not really matter EXCEPT that all it would take is a stupid reference mark to make it a non issue and I want my damn reference mark.

The offset does change with distance, but it remains minor relative to other variables.

 

[Choupique]

The offset does change with distance

That would only be true for a canted rail, correct?

 

[Jordan Smith]

That would only be true for a canted rail, correct?

No, it's true regardless of vertical cant if the bore line and scope LOS intersect at some distance in the horizontal plane. I.e., if you have a good zero at 100 yards, the bore axis and the scope axis cross at 100 yards and the horizontal paths continue to diverge. Using your example of 0.15" separation at 0 yards and 0 separation at 100 yards, approximated as ~0.15 MOA between the two axes, it's a small effect.

 

[Choupique]

regardless of vertical cant if the bore line and scope LOS intersect at some distance in the horizontal plane.

Ah, yep I see what you mean.

About an inch per 1000 yards... when we start hunting with lasers its going to matter. I hope somebody figures out how to put a frickin mark on the ring and the scope tubes at the factory by then!

 

[mt terry d]

My conclusion after all the suggestions is


I'm going back to iron sights.

 

[BigNate]

Stop making this a difficult thing. Hang a string, line up the vertical wire with the string making sure the string is splitting the bore. The bore will be centered directly below center of the scope, and wire will be plumb. Dang near free, no gadgets.

 

[cooperjd]

I use a wheeler system, level the barrel or rail longitudinally then lock in my vise for cant levelness.

if i have a rail, then i use a deck of playing cards as feeler gauges to get it close (learned from sniper buddy of mine, said this is what they do if they have to remount one in a hurry).

i shoot a vertical line laser on the wall and fine tune as i'm slowly tightening the ring screws in an alternating pattern. the shifting drives me a bit nuts but if you just barely torque them and alternate a lot i find the scopes do not move much. In my old house in the basement i just had a plumb line hanging in the corner for this job, works great.