I dont understand the hostility towards wolf reintroduction in Colorado

[Loo.wii]

@Loo.wii I too have a genuine question/observation then. I see "EO Hire" on your posts. I assume Equal Opportunity Hire, in an effort to better understand where you're coming from what does that mean? You support, awarded a position, etc. I don't believe for one second you are genuine. I do believe you know exactly what you're up to.

to further elaborate its more of a commentary touching on the fact that i am the only haitian born immigrant i know who enjoys hiking into remote areas and suffering in the woods. unfortuatly people have been convinced that the outdoors is something for certain people. my hope in life is to introduce more people of diverse backgrounds to hunting, fishing and the elegance of pristine wilderness.

 

[spike camp]

This is one of the wildest things to me, they are doing the same with Lion/bobcat ban. So you are telling me there is a group of biologist who spend their whole career, managing/studying these things?! Awesome they should make the rules/ be allowed to speak intelligently on them.

Enter the uniparty in Co, said party of of science and intelligence: ummm the experts aren’t allowed to speak about this, but here is an op-ed by Ruth-Anne from boulder who really likes kittens… she had 12 of them and frequently wears sweaters with cats on them, trust her she is 73 years old and knows better than wildlife biologists

It’s absolutely sick what’s happening to Colorado.

 

[CorbLand]

This is one of the wildest things to me, they are doing the same with Lion/bobcat ban. So you are telling me there is a group of biologist who spend their whole career, managing/studying these things?! Awesome they should make the rules/ be allowed to speak intelligently on them.

Enter the uniparty in Co, said party of of science and intelligence: ummm the experts aren’t allowed to speak about this, but here is an op-ed by Ruth-Anne from boulder who really likes kittens… she had 12 of them and frequently wears sweaters with cats on them, trust her she is 73 years old and knows better than wildlife biologists

I think its pretty common for most States to have some sort of laws about it. I havent really looked into it but if you watch the Utah DWR, they have been asked emotional, opinionate questions before and have responded in ways that makes me think the same must be true here.

 

[Braaap]

some of the comments are me trolling but broadly speaking i am 100% honest in my post. I don't see (re)introduction as totally bad. i want different perspectives and there a a few folks who have given me serious answers that i will look more into as i develop my perspective.

I spoke with a CA fish and wildlife biologist back in October about deer and bear in the Sierra Nevada. The biologist said they’ve noticed fewer and fewer deer deep in the backcountry and more and more deer living closer to populated areas. This biologist theorizes this is because of the large number of predators (lions and bears) pushing the deer around and the deer move towards populated areas because the predators aren’t as likely to follow them.

I assume the same will happen with wolves pushing elk onto private land closer to human populations because the elk feel safer.

 

[CorbLand]

some of the comments are me trolling but broadly speaking i am 100% honest in my post. I don't see (re)introduction as totally bad. i want different perspectives and there a a few folks who have given me serious answers that i will look more into as i develop my perspective.

I think most of your posts are you trolling.

If you want to learn, you have been given enough research to keep you busy for a while. Go do some reading and come report back what you learned.

 

[Hnthrdr]

I think its pretty common for most States to have some sort of laws about it. I havent really looked into it but if you watch the Utah DWR, they have been asked emotional, opinionate questions before and have responded in ways that makes me think the same must be true here.

If so it’s wild, and makes little to no sense. Instead we are left with special interest groups putting forth arguments that are bought and paid for by said interests.

 

[Pony Soldier]

Studies my butt. Western Mt - wolves just appeared about the time they planted them in jellystone. If you could find where they were, then you knew where not to hunt. That drainage would be empty. The native timber wolves were eradicated. The packs grew over the years. The elk disappeared and the deer became rare. Fairly soon there was nothing left alive. Just bloody wolf tracks in the snow. The hunters started migrating east to hunt. With high hunting pressure the elk moved to private land - much of it bought up by rich out of staters.

Now areas I have hunted for decades can be stripped of elk in a few days with a pack of 10 or 12 whose range appears to be hundreds of square miles. You hope they kill a bunch of calves of ranchers because only then will the gov trapper/ shooter (dept of ag) come in to try to elimonate the pack and buy you 5 or 6 years until the pack gets back up to eradication size again.

It's bucket biology at its finest. Maybe Colorado deserves what the cities wished for.

 

[CorbLand]

If so it’s wild, and makes little to no sense. Instead we are left with special interest groups putting forth arguments that are bought and paid for by said interests.

I think you made "sense" of it in your second sentence.

 

[Dos Perros]

unfortuatly people have been convinced that the outdoors is something for certain people.

What peer reviewed science did you reference to come to this conclusion?

 

[spike camp]

I like wolves, and don’t mind taking a trip to Yellowstone just to look at them. I was under the impression the grizzly is the king of the hill predator, but you can watch grizzlies get run off dead buffalo every morning when the wolves get there - make no mistake, wolves are the best big game killer we have.

It doesn’t take a scientific study, or even a conversation with an expert on the impact of wolves - in one day I was shocked to see for myself the difference in elk behavior pre wolves vs 20 years post wolves. You don’t have to take my word for it, wait a few decades and the type of Colorado elk hunting you like today will be drastically changed. Gone are the days of going to Yellowstone to watch elk.

Elk keep to the timber a lot more, so all the elk walking around Rocky Mountain National Park will be a thing of the past - Estes will still have elk around town because wolves won’t go there.

Each wolf will kill at least two dozen elk a year. The “official” number is about 20 elk, but that doesn’t account for killing more than they can eat. It’s silly to think they only kill enough to eat - given the opportunity they are no different from a dog that gets a rush out of chasing livestock.

Colorado is a big state with a lot of elk - unchecked what would be the wolf population? That number multiplied by two dozen less elk per wolf is a big number.

About Estes park..
Not only will the elk still be in town, but once the wolves start chasing them around in the park, the elk will learn to stay in town all year.
Elk in other areas have absolutely learned that they don’t have to migrate.
Example- Rabbit mountain

I believe Estes elk have the highest prevalence rate of CWD of any wild elk herd because of how they unnaturally congregate.
Something like 15% infection rates.

Wolves were said to help the herds, but in this particular instance, one can only assume their presence will only exacerbate this problem.

 

[Michael Rankin]

unfortuatly people have been convinced that the outdoors is something for certain people.

Wich people have been convinced the outdoors are only for certain people?

Who convinced them?

 

[Michael Rankin]

What peer reviewed science did you reference to come to this conclusion?

Haha

I guess we were both “triggered” at the same time by the exact same portion of his post

 

[Loo.wii]

Wich people have been convinced the outdoors are only for certain people?

Who convinced them?

thats not what we are talking about here. I was just answering a question

 

[Loo.wii]

About Estes park..
Not only will the elk still be in town, but once the wolves start chasing them around in the park, the elk will learn to stay in town all year.
Elk in other areas have absolutely learned that they don’t have to migrate.
Example- Rabbit mountain

I believe Estes elk have the highest prevalence rate of CWD of any wild elk herd because of how they unnaturally congregate.
Something like 15% infection rates.

Wolves were said to help the herds, but in this particular instance, one can only assume their presence will only exacerbate this problem.

Im very interested to see how this plays out. Unfortunately this is a real life science experiment that we can observe

 

[EastHumboldt]

lets do caribou and sage grouse too. im going to dig into this. In the most broad sense i think the ecology of the west pre western expansion is what i would want to re introduce. were caribou roaming the rockies at that point in history ?

In order to restore western ecosystems to something resembling a pre-Columbian state, you would have to make a national park out of the Rocky Mountains all the way from Mexico to way up in Canada. Same for the Cascades. I think that would be awesome. Millions of ranchers, minors, loggers, and other people who make their living utilizing those lands do not think it would be awesome. So restoring the western Wilds to a pre white man condition is a pipe dream. We have to do the best we can to preserve the wilderness we have left and manage the animals that are in it.

Animals like wolves and grizzly that have a fairly high, somewhat negative impact on human economic and recreational activities will always have a controversial place in that managed ecosystem. ideally, the people who are most impacted by these re-introduction projects should have more of a voice. But that’s not the way politics works in this country. On both sides of the political spectrum, it appears the loudest and stupidest voices often triumph. Well- reasoned and nuanced positions on almost any subject Don’t make good political slogans, and won’t get you elected.

 

[Hnthrdr]

About Estes park..
Not only will the elk still be in town, but once the wolves start chasing them around in the park, the elk will learn to stay in town all year.
Elk in other areas have absolutely learned that they don’t have to migrate.
Example- Rabbit mountain

I believe Estes elk have the highest prevalence rate of CWD of any wild elk herd because of how they unnaturally congregate.
Something like 15% infection rates.

Wolves were said to help the herds, but in this particular instance, one can only assume their presence will only exacerbate this problem.

This is the issue with wild animals. We can’t tell the wolves, hey go live in RMNP and stay there, they will go where they want and live where they want it could be Utah or it could be the front range

 

[Loo.wii]

In order to restore western ecosystems to something resembling a pre-Columbian state, you would have to make a national park out of the Rocky Mountains all the way from Mexico to way up in Canada. Same for the Cascades. I think that would be awesome. Millions of ranchers, minors, loggers, and other people who make their living utilizing those lands do not think it would be awesome. So restoring the western Wilds to a pre white man condition is a pipe dream. We have to do the best we can to preserve the wilderness we have left and manage the animals that are in it.

Animals like wolves and grizzly that have a fairly high, somewhat negative impact on human economic and recreational activities will always have a controversial place in that managed ecosystem. ideally, the people who are most impacted by these re-introduction projects should have more of a voice. But that’s not the way politics works in this country. On both sides of the political spectrum, it appears the loudest and stupidest voices often triumph. Well- reasoned and nuanced positions on almost any subject Don’t make good political slogans, and won’t get you elected.

I really appreciate this comment. and i agree with you 100%

 

[Michael Rankin]

lets do caribou and sage grouse too. im going to dig into this. In the most broad sense i think the ecology of the west pre western expansion is what i would want to re introduce. were caribou roaming the rockies at that point in history ?

So are you dreaming of a utopia where you can go back hundreds of years , before natural changes in the west?

Humans are a species on the planet.


Would you like to exterminate some or all of the humans, and then reintroduce other species that didn’t do as well?

It seems like that’s what you hinting at in this post, without coming right out and saying it.



I would really like an honest answer to this question

 

[Ucsdryder]

however far DC is from here

Adult onset hunter, transplant from DC… Shocker…

Come out and shred the gnar all winter, take your bow for a hike all fall, and maybe hear a wolf howl in the wild. Talk about a chubby!!!!

 

[Michael Rankin]

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