I dont understand the hostility towards wolf reintroduction in Colorado

[repins05]

Scientific studies and reports on wolves, elk, deer, etc. based on biologist reports. Many of those biologists dont Hunt and are liberal thinking (does it matter, maybe not). Regardless, how accurate are their findings?

Then we have out of state opinions based on these reports and numbers like they are gospel. Maybe the out of state Hunter was here a week or two. Maybe not.

All I know wolfs showed up, and a ban for bait and use of hounds was implemented for hunting cats and bear In Oregon. Hunted years with rarely seeing any predators. The last 10-15 years I see at least one of the three every hunting season. I once counted over 100 deer in a day. Now I am lucky to see a few Doe’s. The reintroduction of wolves combined with restrictive hunting policy and decline of eastern Oregon deer is coincidental?

Who is to say that wolves didn’t figure out that a deer or a fawn is an easier target than an elk or a calf. Now the pack focuses on easier. When there are not any deer left to hunt …. they move on and find more deer. Or perhaps they start to hunt elk. This won’t happen overnight and I hope our elk numbers don’t reap the consequences in the future.

 

[MTSasquatch]

I wonder how many folks on this thread live, work, and play in wolf and grizzly country. I bet not many.

 

[repins05]

When it
Comes to the Oregon elk population,
Keep in mind they “estimate” this population using modeling. There are a ton of variables that have to be input to come up with the estimates.

In NE Oregon, even archery season has gon to a controlled hunt. Tag numbers have been drastically reduced. Success rates are down from around 2012 when they started acknowledging the presence of the wolves.

Bull to cow ratios have plummeted in lot of the NE Oregon units with the established wolf packs. The bull to cow ratio drop was the reason for cutting tags per ODFW.

Do you believe success rates & bull to cow ratios dropped significantly, but the populations actually increased?

Or is it maybe plausible that the people that have to input the variables into the modeling didn’t adjust the predation value after the wolf packs got established all over NE Oregon?

I actually hunt I NE Oregon. As the number of wolf packs have grown, and spread around that part of the state I’m fairly certain there isn’t more elk today than 2012 when there was very few wolves in that corner of the state.

A few things to ponder.

Agree. I lived in eastern Oregon for many years.

 

[johnnycake]

I wonder how many folks on this thread live, work, and play in wolf and grizzly country. I bet not many.

I do. I saw a pair of wolves just off the highway not even 10 miles from my house last month. It was awesome. We typically get a brown bear or two wandering through the neighborhood each summer.

Apex predators on the landscape is awesome.

 

[ladogg411]

I'm happy to see wolves on the landscape. Silly to waste money on reintroduction rather than just continuing to allow natural migration from WY. But its Kolorado's money.

I can live with fewer big game tags issued in CO. CO residents are only sharing 10-20% of their quality tags with me anyway. So, 80-90% of the tag cuts due to wolves will be borne by CO residents. Seems fair because CO resident hunters were asleep at the wheel in 2020 when so few of them showed up to fight that ballot measure.

 

[Koda_]

Scientific studies and reports on wolves, elk, deer, etc. based on biologist reports. Many of those biologists dont Hunt and are liberal thinking (does it matter, maybe not). Regardless, how accurate are their findings?

Maybe there was a day when political bias didnt matter in academia, but nowadays it does and is injected into all kinds of studies. Get a job as a wildlife biologist and suggest your research shows predators do have a significant impact on struggling prey species and see how long your job lasts.

All I know wolfs showed up, and a ban for bait and use of hounds was implemented for hunting cats and bear In Oregon. Hunted years with rarely seeing any predators. The last 10-15 years I see at least one of the three every hunting season. I once counted over 100 deer in a day. Now I am lucky to see a few Doe’s. The reintroduction of wolves combined with restrictive hunting policy and decline of eastern Oregon deer is coincidental?

Who is to say that wolves didn’t figure out that a deer or a fawn is an easier target than an elk or a calf. Now the pack focuses on easier. When there are not any deer left to hunt …. they move on and find more deer. Or perhaps they start to hunt elk. This won’t happen overnight and I hope our elk numbers don’t reap the consequences in the future.

Lost of anecdotal and empirical evidence show deer and elk are on the decline. I personally think cougars have more to do with it than wolves but either way doesn't matter. Since the ban on dogs (and the reintroduction of wolves) the decline of eastern Oregon deer is not coincidental. But you wont find that correlation in a research paper you will in local media though.

Hunters note rapid decline in C.O. deer and elk population; poachers and predators factors - KTVZ

Hunting season is over. and hunters are concerned deer and elk in Central Oregon are not around like they used to be. Elk and deep populations are rapidly declining and local hunters even started to notice when they were hunting this season.

ktvz.com

I do agree the deer populations will be affected by predation before elk populations, Oregons mule deer population is a good example.

 

[Loo.wii]

Is the OP from Colorado?

not from but been here almost a year so .. im native

 

[kickemall]

I think the crux of the discussion is wether they can be managed or not. i dont think anyone would have an issue if there was a management plan for them. or a path towards one.

You would be wrong about that. There hasn't been a single benefit from wolf re-introduction in any state, management or not.

 

[Loo.wii]

Another adult onset meat eater rinella hipster looking for “nuanced” discussion on apex predator reintroduction. It’s no wonder Steve’s own brother cut ties with him. Look what he’s done

Damn people getting into hobbies they liked doing.

 

[jmez]

If people don't think there is political bias in science you live under a rock. Where does virtually all independent funding for science come from?

Sent from my moto g power 5G - 2023 using Tapatalk

 

[RufusB.Marion]

Do you not feel that your views are somewhat amusing?


You stated that you moved west from Haiti to Florida, then to Washington DC, and then further west to Colorado.

After being a resident of Colorado for a whole year, you have decided there are to many people that have moved west, and would like to eliminate the people to restore the mountains of Colorado back to how they were at some point in time.


I'm still on the fence weather i believe you are serious, or just having a good laugh.

It has been fun.

Thank You

He is so brutal, every thread I see him popping up it's give me a link, and some BS platitude. Give google a whirl one time and maybe just read into an issue. At least he figured out there are too many ppl in Denver and wolves are taking food from his mouth haha.

 

[RufusB.Marion]

Here is a great source for questions, figured I'd post for posterity's sake - www.google.com. It's pretty sweet, you just type in a subject and then bam - all the info you could ever need.

 

[Beendare]

some of the comments are me trolling but broadly speaking i am 100% honest in my post. I don't see (re)introduction as totally bad.

You wouldn’t say that if you knew all of the facts….

 

[cacklercrazy]

It is pretty simple for me. Wolves, grizzly, and other romanticized predators that activists love are not allowed to be managed like other animals are. When their populations are left unchecked, they do negatively impact large ungulate populations, reducing hunting opportunities, and causing problems with livestock. Yes, ranchers can jump through hoops to get reimbursed but if you think that is a break even for them, you are mistaken. As Dos suggested above, you need to do research from multiple perspectives.

The reintroduction of wolves are being used as a tool to end hunting and impact livestock production by the groups of people that hate us. Sierra club is one of the big backers of it.

 

[Koda_]

The reintroduction of wolves are being used as a tool to end hunting and impact livestock production by the groups of people that hate us. Sierra club is one of the big backers of it.

Big game hunting promotes firearm ownership, make hunting unproductive and less people will get into it.
There a movement to end livestock production, Here in Oregon they are collecting signatures to criminalize fishing, hunting and livestock production in Oregon. They tried last year and failed, but they are collecting signatures again this year to get IP3 on the ballot again.
If I recall, this is the same way Oregon's ban on dogs came about.

The stupidity in this is unreal.

About | Yes On IP28 | Oregon

Initiative Petition 28 (IP28) is a proposed ballot initiative for the Oregon 2026 statewide general election that would prohibit the intentional injury and killing of animals. Help make history by joining the Yes On IP28 campaign team.

www.yesonip3.org

 

[repins05]

Big game hunting promotes firearm ownership, make hunting unproductive and less people will get into it.
There a movement to end livestock production, Here in Oregon they are collecting signatures to criminalize fishing, hunting and livestock production in Oregon. They tried last year and failed, but they are collecting signatures again this year to get IP3 on the ballot again.
If I recall, this is the same way Oregon's ban on dogs came about.

The stupidity in this is unreal.

About | Yes On IP28 | Oregon

Initiative Petition 28 (IP28) is a proposed ballot initiative for the Oregon 2026 statewide general election that would prohibit the intentional injury and killing of animals. Help make history by joining the Yes On IP28 campaign team.

www.yesonip3.org

Complete stupidity. Then the bill gets camouflaged so no one understands it.

 

[Invisiblecreek]

The fact that these species would go uncheck is wrong in my opinion. but i think there is room in the woods for them.

Who is keeping the population of wolves “in check”? What animal is killing wolves? The woods would have to get real empty for a bear or cougar to take on a wolf. If there is no predator management by humans either hunters or state, the numbers will sky rocket


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Iowafarmer]

Well as a cattle producer I can certainly understand. I’ll tell you what how about every night you take $800 and put it in a jar at the end of your driveway and then in the morning you can check and see if it’s still there. Sure if you can prove the lose and file the paperwork maybe you’ll get some money back. That doesn’t account for the stress on the rest of the herd and the producer themselves or the lose of gain. Why not release them around Denver so the people that voted for them can worry about fluffy getting eaten I’m sure they could be reembursed

 

[three5x5s]

Well as a cattle producer I can certainly understand. I’ll tell you what how about every night you take $800 and put it in a jar at the end of your driveway and then in the morning you can check and see if it’s still there. Sure if you can prove the lose and file the paperwork maybe you’ll get some money back. That doesn’t account for the stress on the rest of the herd and the producer themselves or the lose of gain. Why not release them around Denver so the people that voted for them can worry about fluffy getting eaten I’m sure they could be reembursed

Only the farmer/rancher sees the loss from stress on cattle.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Big game hunting promotes firearm ownership, make hunting unproductive and less people will get into it.
There a movement to end livestock production, Here in Oregon they are collecting signatures to criminalize fishing, hunting and livestock production in Oregon. They tried last year and failed, but they are collecting signatures again this year to get IP3 on the ballot again.
If I recall, this is the same way Oregon's ban on dogs came about.

The stupidity in this is unreal.

About | Yes On IP28 | Oregon

Initiative Petition 28 (IP28) is a proposed ballot initiative for the Oregon 2026 statewide general election that would prohibit the intentional injury and killing of animals. Help make history by joining the Yes On IP28 campaign team.

www.yesonip3.org

How long until an IP3-like ballot initiative hits Colorado? I give it a few years.