Lead poisoning in eagles

[cubdriver84d]

Bunch of news articles about this new paper in Science: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126...6472541199F70A4C98A6%40AdobeOrg|TS=1645208782

Science | AAAS

www.science.org

Nearly Half of U.S. Bald Eagles Suffer From Lead Poisoning

Nearly half of bald eagles and golden eagles in U.S. show signs of repeated lead exposure, which can lead to early death

time.com

US eagles have chronic lead poisoning from bullets in hunted animals

Eagles scavenge the remains of hunted animals, which carry lead fragments from bullets. Lead poisoning threatens to slow their population growth.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Tomek]

Along the same lines with fishing weights. It accumulates in higher quantities as to go up a good web but we are just starting to track it

 

[Wrench]

There's been some counter science to argue this.

 

[Tomek]

I don't think anything concrete will be available for a while to truly have a strong argument on either side. I don't remember the details but what I was reading on eagles had a pretty small sample size so that can skew results too.

On the one hand I can find it very plausible that eagles could pick up lead from scavenging but on the other hand who the hell is out there leaving behind enough kills to impact eagle populations? Is there a significant number of folks heading out and shooting a dozen squirrels or something just to leave them?

I'll have to read up on this

 

[Moserkr]

I remember when 1/167 wild (reintroduced) condors ate a common quarter and died. We got a lead ban in CA for those things…. Whats funny is they (biologists) still kill and leave large carcasses for the condors to eat since there is not enough natural food for them.

They will use their lead argument as another 1/1000 cuts to chip away at gun and hunting rights.

 

[Tomek]

I work in conservation and that shit pisses me off. Using stuff like this to push an agenda is harmful to everyone long term and undermines actual conservation work that could benefit everyone. Hunters and conservation groups have nearly identical goals, healthy and thriving populations, but end up fighting over the dumbest things imo.

 

[cubdriver84d]

There's been some counter science to argue this.

Care to share?

 

[cubdriver84d]

I don't think anything concrete will be available for a while to truly have a strong argument on either side. I don't remember the details but what I was reading on eagles had a pretty small sample size so that can skew results too.

On the one hand I can find it very plausible that eagles could pick up lead from scavenging but on the other hand who the hell is out there leaving behind enough kills to impact eagle populations? Is there a significant number of folks heading out and shooting a dozen squirrels or something just to leave them?

I'll have to read up on this

This study include over 1200 eagles. Not really a small sample size in wildlife studies

Excerpt from the paper: Acute poisoning of both species was generally higher in winter months, when bald and golden eagles commonly scavenge (3–5). Elevated lead concentrations in predatory and scavenging birds are usually caused by primary lead poisoning, most frequently direct ingestion of lead fragments from ammunition (2, 12, 13). Use of lead in ammunition during hunting seasons corresponds directly, both spatially and temporally, with the feeding ecology of facultative scavengers such as bald and golden eagles (5, 14), a problem that has been studied extensively (5, 14, 15). Our data show a continent-wide temporal correspondence between acute lead poisoning of eagles and the use of lead ammunition.

 

[cubdriver84d]

I work in conservation and that shit pisses me off. Using stuff like this to push an agenda is harmful to everyone long term and undermines actual conservation work that could benefit everyone. Hunters and conservation groups have nearly identical goals, healthy and thriving populations, but end up fighting over the dumbest things imo.

Are you saying the news outlets are using the findings of the paper to push an agenda or the research and the way it’s presented in the paper are pushing an agenda?

 

[HighUintas]

I wish I had access to the entire study. I'm guessing no one that commented here actually read the study or even the brief that is in the link.

 

[PNWGATOR]

Fake news.

 

[Bubblehide]

This just science again, no surprise. They present ZERO evidence that the lead comes from bullets; no ands ifs of butts about that. One article states it plainly enough, "it is assumed" Science is not supposed to ASSUME anything. If they say it is from bullets, they need to prove it. They could simply compare California raptors, where lead ammunition is banned, to states where lead is legal to find a significant difference with lead in the raptors. But based on the studies thus far, we already know the is no significant difference to find.

 

[cubdriver84d]

This just science again, no surprise. They present ZERO evidence that the lead comes from bullets; no ands ifs of butts about that. One article states it plainly enough, "it is assumed" Science is not supposed to ASSUME anything. If they say it is from bullets, they need to prove it. They could simply compare California raptors, where lead ammunition is banned, to states where lead is legal to find a significant difference with lead in the raptors. But based on the studies thus far, we already know the is no significant difference to find.

Not true. Scientists have used isotopic signatures of lead to trace it to bullets. For example this study from 10 years ago: https://www.pnas.org/content/109/28/11449

 

[Wrench]

Care to share?

I'm working on it. This came up a few years ago and there was a disease that had been blamed on lead that was found....but I can't recall exactly what it is.

Interesting that eagles feed on roadkill frequently and there's no study on glycol poisoning.

Here's some information on bird deaths....lead being a non contributing factor. https://www.sibleyguides.com/conservation/causes-of-bird-mortality/

 

[Bubblehide]

Not true. Scientists have used isotopic signatures of lead to trace it to bullets. For example this study from 10 years ago: https://www.pnas.org/content/109/28/11449

You are WRONG. Sure bullets have the same isotope as the studies, as to thousands of other products. Thus, the isotope information does NOT conclude bullets are the source.

 

[Wrench]

In the interest of transparency, who funded the study and who was paid to research?

Having worked on these projects, I can say with confidence that you can buy whatever data you want.....you just need to be creative about how you ask the question.

 

[cubdriver84d]

You are WRONG. Sure bullets have the same isotope as the studies, as to thousands of other products. Thus, the isotope information does NOT conclude bullets are the source.

Could be. I don’t know much about isotopes and wouldn’t claim to. (Although what I do know suggests there isn’t “thousands of products” that have the same isotopic signature as lead in bullets). Either way, what is the evidence that suggests something else with the same isotopic signature as lead bullets is causing the lead levels commonly observed in raptors and other scavenging wildlife?

 

[cubdriver84d]

In the interest of transparency, who funded the study and who was paid to research?

Having worked on these projects, I can say with confidence that you can buy whatever data you want.....you just need to be creative about how you ask the question.

The acknowledgments section of the paper lists multiple agencies (state and federal) and some private groups as funders.

 

[Wrench]

The acknowledgments section of the paper lists multiple agencies (state and federal) and some private groups as funders.

Looking into the scientists....these guys are as anti hunting as we can expect.

Trophy hunting: Science on its own can’t dictate policy

Discover the world’s best science and medicine | Nature.com

www.nature.com

https://m.facebook.com/tim.appenzeller.7

 

[Wrench]

When topics arise and there's a few google hits on it, I tend to believe there's potential for accuracy. When EVERY media outlet hits the same topic at the same time, I get suspicious of agendas.