MK5 HD vs NX8 . . Thoughts?

[Formidilosus]

Well I suppose they could but do I want to carry that heavy tube that's thick enough to not bend when I land on it in the rocks? It's all a balance and yeah I want it as tough and reliable as possible but what will a totally reliable optic weigh and would I want to carry it into the mountains?

20-28oz. A VX-5HD 2-10X42 weighs 18oz, no one complains about their weight. Two more ounces.

 

[Bubblehide]

Bummer man. So what next then, you shot it and it wasn't zero'd? Did it group off zero, work its way back to zero after a round or two, etc.? Or something more catastrophic like the eyepiece fell off or something?

Which mounts and what rifle set-up?

It would no longer hold zero or re-zero. Hawkins on a 20 moa rail, on a 30 cal.

 

[woods89]

You don't pull your scope and take it in your carry-on?

I mean domestic mail service did this:
View attachment 361128

I don't, although it's probably not a bad idea. I like all my mount screws locktited, so I lock it up in a good case and go with that.

In a small sample size, this works great with an SHV, not so great with a Vortex Viper.

 

[BBob]

20-28oz. A VX-5HD 2-10X42 weighs 18oz, no one complains about their weight. Two more ounces.

Well if they build a 28oz or less optic that's as reliable as irons I'm in. You reference the VX-5HD 2-10X42, are you alluding that they are as reliable as irons?

Oh, and for what I primarily do I want 18x or 20x please (I know you're going to tell me I'll be fine w/15x but I beg to differ ). I could care less about 2.5x at the low end so they can skip the big power multiplications and give me more reliability.

 

[Tahoe1305]

You don't pull your scope and take it in your carry-on?

I mean domestic mail service did this:
View attachment 361128

I’m confused.

This is a NF though, it did still hold zero right?

 

[Formidilosus]

Well if they build a 28oz or less optic that's as reliable as irons I'm in. You reference the VX-5HD 2-10X42, are you alluding that they are as reliable as irons?

No. The VX5 is a poor aiming device.

All scope makes/models have a failure rate. But that failure rate varies considerably- and paying $3,000 does not necessarily get you a lower failure rate. Khales/Swarovski/S&B/TT/ZCO/Vortex/Zeiss/Leupold are not designing and building scopes with zero retention as the #1 priority. They are designing them for glass, features, and weights/size- roughly in that order. There was a noticeable shift in scope “tracking” when one person started putting scopes on a tracking board and showing the results online. It showed that there was no correlation between price and correct adjustments because most companies were not building or testing for it.

A sample of one with use that doesn’t even come close to “hard” does not give reliable enough info. I do not talk about one offs or light use. When I say that NF “tactical” scope lines have a lower failure rate than Leupold Mark 5’s I’m not speaking about one or two- I’m talking dozens, used heavily.
I am just some person on the internet, which is why I have state over and over what makes these scope fail. Don’t trust me- go check yours.

Oh, and for what I primarily do I want 18x or 20x please (I know you're going to tell me I'll be fine w/15x but I beg to differ ). I could care less about 2.5x at the low end so they can skip the big power multiplications and give me more reliability.

You (the market) has to start demanding it.

I will give an example from the AR15 world. Geissele MK16 handguards which had been selected for a buy from part of the military. A couple people got the bright idea to drop the rifle with laser aiming device and scope from shoulder height on concrete, from a leaked PP slide that said that handguard shifted from impacts. They cowitnessed the Optic and laser (means that’s they were both aiming at the same spot). Low and behold the laser did shift when dropped, which they took to mean the rail shifted, and it deformed the rail. This started a whole thing with people dropping rifles and breaking handguards and optics.


Now, there were some major issues with their test, #1 they believed that the optics would hold zero with the drops- they don’t. #2 they believed that the laser holds zero from drops- they don’t. BUT, what was found out was there are a lot (as in most) of handguards that are fragile as can be because the manufacturers had never considered durability in rough handling as a thing, and had certainly never actually conducted legitimate testing of their products. One year later there were rails coming out with mounting interfaces and durability signify improved, which needed to happen- all because people started dropping the things and seeing what would happen.

The key thing here is, even though their “testing” isn’t testing, and it certainly isn’t repeatable and isn’t “scientific” it exposed a serious weakness in products. That weakness had been known in small circles, but manufacturers wouldn’t listen to the few voices showing real problems because the market didn’t say it needed it.

 

[huntnful]

Mark 5 3.6-18 over the nightforce 2.5-20. The Mark 5 is superior in every way IMO. I hunt plenty hard with my equipment. This hunt alone was 50 back-country miles, and over 15,000' vertical gain. With my rifle strapped to my pack like this for the majority of it. Also checked 200 yard zero when I got home, spot on of course. Head shot the elk at 260 yards and perfect shot the buck at 307 yards. I'd also be willing to bet that most zero loses from falling rifles can be traced back to the mounting system, not the scope.

 

[BBob]

No. The VX5 is a poor aiming device.

What I thought and was a bit confused with you listing it which is why I asked to clarify..

You (the market) has to start demanding it.

You bet. Mby some people need 2.5 to 25 or the like but I sure don't.

 

[tdhanses]

You don't pull your scope and take it in your carry-on?

I mean domestic mail service did this:
View attachment 361128

Did NF warranty your scope when you had this happen?

 

[woods89]

That's not mine. That's a photo from Jason at EuroOptic.

So probably in a cardboard box?

If you use a good case, it's going to take pretty crazy treatment to get that result. Flying subjects baggage to a lot of jars and vibration, and I feel like the above mentioned testing is quite relevant to that.

But I'm no expert.

 

[woods89]

My recollection is that a customer purchased that ATACR from EuroOptic. EuroOptic mailed the optic, and that is how it arrived to the customer. Just so happens I've bought an ATACR (as well as a Mk5) from EuroOptic, and they do a great job packaging around the mfg's box. Nightforce also provides their internal packaging around the optic. Shipping is tough on stuff.

Ok. To be fair, I have heard of the end being broken off Pelicans cases as well. Obviously anything is probably going to be affected by that kind of trauma.

I still think the more people we have abusing products and reporting results the better. I'll let others make mistakes for me as often as I can. I'm also one of those people who has accepted the fact that my rifle is going to get beat up a bit in the backcountry. For me there is no downside to a reputation for reliability.

To each his own.

 

[Theringworm]

The March FX 4.5-28 is my most recent purchase and my favorite scope of the bunch for a lighter weighted hunting rifle build. Slightly lighter than the NX8, which I also own, and is way better than the NX8 in all categories. That being said, the only complaint I have had on the NX8 is indeed the tight eye box. I also have a ZCO 5-27, and a S&B PMII. I don’t consider Leupold to do anything great, just average after multiple warranty claims and have since written them off. Just my personal experience. The ZCO is best the scope I own if I were doing a head to head but it’s heavy. The March is not too far behind it though.

 

[huntnful]

The March FX 4.5-28 is my most recent purchase and my favorite scope of the bunch for a lighter weighted hunting rifle build. Slightly lighter than the NX8, which I also own, and is way better than the NX8 in all categories. That being said, the only complaint I have had on the NX8 is indeed the tight eye box. I also have a ZCO 5-27, and a S&B PMII. I don’t consider Leupold to do anything great, just average after multiple warranty claims and have since written them off. Just my personal experience. The ZCO is best the scope I own if I were doing a head to head but it’s heavy. The March is not too far behind it though.

Man I really wanted to try that March also, but i shoot MOA and they only offered it in Mil. Glad to hear that it’s an awesome scope in that 30oz range.

 

[tdhanses]

Man I really wanted to try that March also, but i shoot MOA and they only offered it in Mil. Glad to hear that it’s an awesome scope in that 30oz range.

I’ll never understand why people can’t use both MOA and Mil, I have scopes with both and have zero issue getting my apps to work for them and creating dope charts.

 

[Formidilosus]

I’ll never understand why people can’t use both MOA and Mil, I have scopes with both and have zero issue getting my apps to work for them and creating dope charts.

It isn’t about making them work, it’s about flow.

How do you make wind calls without the ballistic app or door card?

 

[tdhanses]

It isn’t about making them work, it’s about flow.

How do you make wind calls without the ballistic app or door card?

Using the reticle and kestrel, without I don’t take the shot if past 400 or I’m not comfortable with the wind. I’m also not going to just wing it without yardage and my binos also are dialed based on the rifle and sd card.

I get the flow but it isn’t hard to use both but I’m also not going to shoot past 500 on an animal, bench i’ll shoot to 1k for fun, just my self imposed limits.

 

[huntnful]

I’ll never understand why people can’t use both MOA and Mil, I have scopes with both and have zero issue getting my apps to work for them and creating dope charts.

I could easily do it with my technology and apps and what not. But it’s just about simplicity and keeping things the same. I’m a killer that shoots long range for the sole purpose of killing animals honestly. Hitting steel at 1000 is a piece of cake no matter what system. I just want zero issues/confusion when in the field. Its all MOA or all MIL for me.

 

[Formidilosus]

Using the reticle and kestrel, without I don’t take the shot if past 400 or I’m not comfortable with the wind. I’m also not going to just wing it without yardage and my binos also are dialed based on the rifle and sd card.

I get the flow but it isn’t hard to use both but I’m also not going to shoot past 500 on an animal, bench i’ll shoot to 1k for fun, just my self imposed limits.

I have yet to meet a person that shoots MOA be able to give me the dope for elevation on demand, nor wind calls without an app or dope card. Yet, it is easy to do so with Mil. I don’t have to have ever have shot your rifle to know what the wind call is, and will be very close on elevation out to 600 by just knowing approximate MV and which bullet.
Using one system that requires looking at chart even out to 500 for drop and drift, when there is another that doesn’t require it isn’t conducive to optimum performance. Nor is mixing the systems under stress. That works when someone has time on a flat range and can think through it, and goes right out the window under stress. The odds that a person will miss hold or miss calculate is extremely high doing so.
Of the last two years and 30’ish animals from less than 20 yards to near 1,000y, with about 80% of those animals being 350-700 yards. I have looked at the drop chart for maybe 20% of those shots, and only one that I can remember for wind; yet holding serious wind (1-3 mils worth) for the vast majority of those.

Again, not saying you can’t kill with MOA, but mil is a measurably much better way across the board and every person I’ve ever seen that mix Mil and moa scopes have problems under stress.

 

[tdhanses]

I have yet to meet a person that shoots MOA be able to give me the dope for elevation on demand, nor wind calls without an app or dope card. Yet, it is easy to do so with Mil. I don’t have to have ever have shot your rifle to know what the wind call is, and will be very close on elevation out to 600 by just knowing approximate MV and which bullet.
Using one system that requires looking at chart even out to 500 for drop and drift, when there is another that doesn’t require it isn’t conducive to optimum performance. Nor is mixing the systems under stress. That works when someone has time on a flat range and can think through it, and goes right out the window under stress. The odds that a person will miss hold or miss calculate is extremely high doing so.
Of the last two years and 30’ish animals from less than 20 yards to near 1,000y, with about 80% of those animals being 350-700 yards. I have looked at the drop chart for maybe 20% of those shots, and only one that I can remember for wind; yet holding serious wind (1-3 mils worth) for the vast majority of those.

Again, not saying you can’t kill with MOA, but mil is a measurably much better way across the board and every person I’ve ever seen that mix Mil and moa scopes have problems under stress.

I use Mil but am far from being able to shoot way out there with zero tech, which includes a rangefinder.

 

[Formidilosus]

Quick wind approximation methods work exactly the same for mil and MOA, it’s been covered. For either:

Find your gun number correlating to a full value wind. For mil, typical practice is 0.1mil/100 yards. For MOA, typical practice is 0.5 MOA/100 yards.

Make your wind call & determine full value component

Proportion as needed relative to gun number

Hold/dial

Shoot

Ok cool. Do so without an app. On demand. And also do so for elevation.