Neck splitting mitigation

[Yellowknife]

Question for the more experienced handloaders.

So I currently doing a significant of my shooting and hunting with a Tikka 30-06. Over the last few years I've probably put 800+ handloads through it just judging by the amount of components I've burned through. Biggest issue is I've had with it is that I lose brass due to neck splitting at a pretty high rate. I started annealing after the third reload, and that extended it a bit, but I still lose them between 6-7 shots. Faster if they are nickle plated.

30-06 brass isn't exactly in short supply, so it's not a critical issue, but in the interest of science and better loading technique, I'd like to learn more. It seems like in the reloading process, I'm working that neck really hard. So some measurements.

Outside neck diameter:

Before Firing: 0.334"

Fired Case: 0.342" (+0.008")

Sized Down: 0.328" (-0.014")

Expander Ball: 0.331" (+0.003")

Seated Bullet: 0.334" (+0.003")

The neck measurements after firing seem to be on the sloppy side of SAAMI specs, but perhaps my old RCBS dies aren't doing my brass any favors either. My questions to those who know more than me. Is it:

A.) My the neck too sloppy, and the abrupt 0.008" expansion on firing the issue? or;

B.) would I be better off with better quality or different dies, or;

C.) should I just get real religious about annealing every few shots.

I've had brass in other calibers live much much longer, so I know it's possible. I've used a mix of mostly R-P and Fed brass, with some Winchester when I can get it and they all eventually split the same way.

Insights?

Yk

 

[Sam Millard]

It's a little sloppy, but if you invested in a bushing-type sizing die, you can avoid working the neck unnecessarily during the loading process. If your loaded neck diameter is .334", you can size the neck to .333" with a bushing, and completely skip the expander ball. That, and annealing, will make your brass last much longer than 6-7 firings.

 

[mtswampfox]

My bolt rifles for pd shooting all were reloaded with redding s dies which only resizes an eighth of an inch down on the neck, just enough to hold a new bullet. Stops all the neck issues including case stretch and neck cracking. The ar's get full length resized with small base reddings with carbide expanders. Also use imperial die wax for lube including running the case neck edge over my finger to get some lube on the inside of the neck. Greatly reduces stretch and over working the necks. My.02$

 

[snowcamoman]

I was going to say to try some bushing dies if you want to make the investment. I'm religious about using Imperial wax like mtswampfox and havn't had any splits on some of my brass that's been loaded with bushing dies a dozen times. I'm running Lapua brass typically, so maybe that's helping improve brass life.

 

[Yellowknife]

Thanks guys,

"Invest" is the right word for the those bushing dies. A different class of die for sure. Quick search and I come up with Redding, Forester, and RCBS versions. Any others I should consider? Do those still work if I'm using several different brass brands?

I've been kicking around the idea of upgrading the seating die anyway, so maybe I need to be looking at a set.

 

[mtswampfox]

Different brass will sometimes take a different bushing due to neck thickness. You can also determin how much neck tension on the bullet. The reddings will also vary about half of a thousandth by turning upside down Some military surpluss was much thicker than civilian thus needing a larger bushing. Know some redding bushing dies are good for one caliber up or down from listed caliber. Like a 30-06 would work for a 280. My 223 ai dies work on my 6 tcu with the appropriat bushing. Also some have a carbide bushings which work even smoother. Call redding cs for a tech who can and will help you a bunch

 

[Sam Millard]

Super simple:

[video=youtube;UpSNPY3zXfo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpSNPY3zXfo[/video]

 

[Yellowknife]

Thanks Sam, that pretty well lays it out.

Yk

 

[ST52v]

I like the looks and price of the foster mic seater die. Looks the same as the redding at about 1/2 the price. I hope to find it and the redding type s full length sizer die for my 6.5 creedmore under the tree. For a few bucks more the widden die set looks good and Shrek likes them.

 

[mtswampfox]

Have found lots of redding dies on ebay too.

 

[Kay9Cop]

If you're going to stick with that rifle for awhile, I would order a custom honed Forster sizing die. They have instructions on their web site for measuring to get the right neck tension and not excessively work the brass.

 

[KMD]

It's a little sloppy, but if you invested in a bushing-type sizing die, you can avoid working the neck unnecessarily during the loading process. If your loaded neck diameter is .334", you can size the neck to .333" with a bushing, and completely skip the expander ball. That, and annealing, will make your brass last much longer than 6-7 firings.

Solid advice!




A.) Yes, you're definitely at the mercy of those capacious factory/neck dimensions. Blowing necks out .008" from loaded rd. to fired rd. dia. is the main issue. Kinda like being stuck between a rock & a hard place when you have to size necks down ~.010" just to allow for adequate tension to hold a bullet!

B.)I re-size with bushing dies (Redding Type S, or custom Whidden), and vary bushing sizes based on the application. Generally, -.001-003" under loaded rd. and remove the expander, as noted above. A bushing die will help save a couple thou. during the sizing process, but the larger issue of firing those rounds in a huge chamber is still present & unaccounted for.

C.)Yes, I'd anneal religiously, if you want to eeek out a few extra firings. I usually anneal brass every 3x fired, but I'm working my custom chambers/reloads are built for +/-.002" from loaded rd. nk. dia.

As with most everything, basic accounting principles apply to reloading. Its up to you to decide whether the extra expense of a bushing die & bushings save enough brass to make it worth the investment? Or, if the extra time to anneal after every firing is worth the hassle?

For a factory hunting rifle that doesn't get shot in high volume & uses readily available brass/ammo, you might just stick with your present setup. If you've got a Bernz-o-matic torch layin' around, anneal 10 rds. & test how many more firings you can get out of that batch, vs. what you've been doing...

Good luck & have fun!

 

[rayporter]

jim carstensen of jlc precision will take your die and convert it to a bushing die.
http://www.6mmbr.com/CarstensenJLC01.html
i have had several done by him. he can be hard to reach during certain times of the year, but now he should be available.

 

[Yellowknife]

I'm not sure if custom dies are ever going to make economic sense when it comes to saving brass from a factory 30-06. However, I do want to work on building straighter more consistent ammunition this year so may invest in some better equipment to that end regardless. I will also try to be consistent with annealing every 3x and see were that gets me.

Thanks everyone,

Yk

 

[Yellowknife]

jim carstensen of jlc precision will take your die and convert it to a bushing die.
http://www.6mmbr.com/CarstensenJLC01.html
i have had several done by him. he can be hard to reach during certain times of the year, but now he should be available.

So after taking a look at the various bushing dies on the market, I ended up putting my old RCBS die and a check for $50 in the mail to JLC Precision. Two weeks later I got it back converted to a bushing die. A Wilson bushing was purchased on sale from Midway for $8 and I was in business.



Jim's machine work looks really good to my eye, and everything went together perfectly. So far I really like it. Obviously it works the brass a little less, but it's also really nice not to have to drag the expander ball back through the neck every time. Makes the whole process go just a little easier. I already knew that the die body was a good fit for my chamber in every other dimension, and this new set up is about as good as I'm going to get for this rifle I think.


Yk