New Mexico Elk land owner tags cost

[cuerro viejo]

Yes, that's my view. Land ownership and wildlife ownership are mutually exclusive. Landowners are only "entitled" to the wildlife that the public allows them to take.

If I were a resident of NM I'd be advocating to make massive changes to the current LO tag program...top of the list would be to make LO tags nontransferable except to immediate family. Second would be making it illegal for any person to barter or sell a LO tag, even to a family member.

Whole point of the tag is to compensate for damages, the more they compensate the more land owner tolerate or even help propagate the Wildlife.

it wasnt long ago ranchers use to mow them down, with blessings from State Ag heads.

This is a much better way to utilize and protect a resource.

But I get it, its hard for some to understand because their lively hood isn’t based off wether they have to spend 20kplus a year on fence damage or bull destroyed a 100k sprinkler or x amount in crop loss.

all you see is a dollar figure someone got for your animal.

 

[BuzzH]

Whole point of the tag is to compensate for damages, the more they compensate the more land owner tolerate or even help propagate the Wildlife.

it wasnt long ago ranchers use to mow them down, with blessings from State Ag heads.

This is a much better way to utilize and protect a resource.

But I get it, its hard for some to understand because their lively hood isn’t based off wether they have to spend 20kplus a year on fence damage or bull destroyed a 100k sprinkler or x amount in crop loss.

all you see is a dollar figure someone got for your animal.

The whole point of the tags should be to control elk numbers on the ranches that are suffering damage. That doesn't happen with a lot of the transferable tags, in particular the unit wide bull permits. I bet at least half of the LO bull permits are killed on public land and not even close to the ranch that sold the permit.

Also, if a landowner is suffering damage and the idea is control the population, you don't do that by killing bulls. You kill cows, and lots of them.

Also, there are other ways the landowners can be compensated, they can charge trespass fees, they can contract through an outfitter for hunting rights, or, heaven forbid, just allow hunters to shoot the elk for free on their land.

Point is, many want it both ways, the elk are "theirs" when its convenient for them to make money off them, but its the "states elk" when it comes to any inconvenience or damage. Sounds a lot like Corporate America...social losses and privatize profits.

 

[5MilesBack]

If the landowners were allowed to be compensated for their losses every year, the F&G departments would go broke. The LO Tags are a way to thin herds AND compensate the landowners. They don't get compensated by giving these tags away. Although I do have a buddy that gets 16-20 depredation cow tags every year and he just gives them away. But some of the losses are staggering.

And I know how they feel. I put up a netting deer fence 14 years ago and it kept the deer out of my yard until last May when a late snow storm took many large branches down along with the fence. I didn't feel like putting it back up because of the cost and the trouble, but these dang deer have eaten anything and everything in the yard. Every bush, every tree, every flower, every plant, they've even killed a few trees I planted with rubbing all the bark off the trunks. I figure they've cost me over $1000 in just this past year. If they were elk they'd already be in the freezer. I can't imagine the cost of the losses on a 5k acre ranch.

 

[SoDaky]

"I had that at one time.....in CO. Then one year I called him up and asked if he got any tags. He said "sure".........."but some guy offered me $9k, so I took it". I can't blame him, $$$ talks louder than relationships."

Guess so sometimes.Not for me.

 

[Reburn]

Also, there are other ways the landowners can be compensated, they can charge trespass fees, they can contract through an outfitter for hunting rights, or, heaven forbid, just allow hunters to shoot the elk for free on their land.

They can recoup losses by letting people shoot them for free????? Please explain to me the math on that one I'm not clear on it.

Simple fact is elk can do an amazing amount of damage. Nobody minds until they have to pay for it by loss of money from the alfalfa that a herd of 100 elk eat in the spring as they pass through your ranch.

 

[BuzzH]

They can recoup losses by letting people shoot them for free????? Please explain to me the math on that one I'm not clear on it.

Simple fact is elk can do an amazing amount of damage. Nobody minds until they have to pay for it by loss of money from the alfalfa that a herd of 100 elk eat in the spring as they pass through your ranch.

Elk don't tolerate much killing...and dead elk don't eat alfalfa or bust down fences.

Intuitively obvious, even to a casual observer.

How about the landowners that receive tags in NM that don't have alfalfa or fences...yet still receive tags? Care to explain that? There is no requirement that a LO in New Mexico has to be suffering damage to receive a transferable tag...none. Same in NV, WY, UT, etc.

I also have to wonder where it ends with transferable licenses? Should I receive compensation from the State because a mule deer buck raked the chit out of my ornamental tree in the front yard? If LO's that aren't experiencing game damage are able to transfer a tag, should I be able to transfer my WY general deer tag to the tune of 1k or so to a NR hunter to cover that?

Its also hilarious to listen to many whine about hunting "becoming a rich's mans sport" every time the various States raise NR license fee's a dollar. Yet, think nothing of handing over the publics wildlife to others to sell, simply because they have wildlife using their land (not even necessarily doing any damage). Tags that sell for thousands and thousands more than what the States are charging. Never could reconcile those 2 lines of "logic".

Of course, there's also just personal responsibility of dealing with wildlife that is native to the places you live. If elk are causing you damage, purchase crop insurance, build wildlife friendly fences, allow the public to hunt, do some hunting yourself, or move to a place where you don't have to deal with elk.

If I build my house in a flood plain and don't have insurance when it floods...I'm S.O.L. I don't expect the State to compensate me for damages. Same with building a house in the sticks and having a wildfire burn my place down...I either insure it, mitigate the risk, remove some brush, etc. But, either way I'm the one paying my own freight.

Time for LO's to accept the fact that dealing with wildlife is called one thing...life. Don't expect a handout from me.

Like I've said, I'm fine with a LO getting tags to hunt themselves or transfer to an immediate family member to hunt with.

That's wayyyyy different than handing LO's tens of thousands of dollars of permits at the expense of the public's wildlife. I'm not unreasonable, if a LO is willing to tolerate wildlife by giving them a tag for their own use or the use of immediate family, I'm good with that.

You cant talk until you're blue in the face...I'm not changing my mind. Some like the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation...some don't. Count me as a firm believer in the former...

 

[Reburn]

Ok I will play this game with you publicly. Your stance is known and I don't care 2 flips about changing your mind but I won't just lie down for you to assume your right to preach from your perceived podium for all the world.

Elk don't tolerate much killing...and dead elk don't eat alfalfa or bust down fences.

Intuitively obvious, even to a casual observer.

Generally shooting elk cows out of season while nursing calves in the spring is not considered good form or legal. If that’s when your seeing all the damage you just get to take it. And you still didn’t answer the question on allowing the public to come shoot elk for free helps you recover money from the loss.

Of course, there's also just personal responsibility of dealing with wildlife that is native to the places you live. If elk are causing you damage, purchase crop insurance, build wildlife friendly fences, allow the public to hunt, do some hunting yourself, or move to a place where you don't have to deal with elk.

If I build my house in a flood plain and don't have insurance when it floods...I'm S.O.L. I don't expect the State to compensate me for damages. Same with building a house in the sticks and having a wildfire burn my place down...I either insure it, mitigate the risk, remove some brush, etc. But, either way I'm the one paying my own freight.

Time for LO's to accept the fact that dealing with wildlife is called one thing...life. Don't expect a handout from me.

So your cool with building high fence in western states to keep wildlife out? Allowing the public to hunt for free in the fall doesn’t mitigate damage in the summer. Having paying hunters does. You think its a good idea to not farm or ranch because you can't make it profitable with out supplemental income from the animals that directly cause you loss? Crop insurance, laughs, have you ever purchased crop insurance do you know how it works. Its all neat that the "Public" gets increased tags due to increased herd sized due to the carry capacity of the land being increased due to the farmers but not when the LO gets some benefit of his loss to do with as he so sees fit? Nobody is asking for or getting a hand out get off your podium sir.

How about the landowners that receive tags in NM that don't have alfalfa or fences...yet still receive tags? Care to explain that? There is no requirement that a LO in New Mexico has to be suffering damage to receive a transferable tag...none. Same in NV, WY, UT, etc.

I guess since I cited only one available food source you just tossed the baby out with the bathwater. Your right elk only eat alfalfa...... They don’t eat grass or any other available forage. Tell me on a yearly average what a wild elk cow eats and how many lbs/acre she consumes? I don't need to prove an elk eats that’s Intuitively obvious, even to a casual observer.


Telling a land owner here thanks for taking care of 100’s of elk during spring green up and here is a single non transferable not sellable tag for your troubles is unreasonable. We will keep the other elk LO thanks for putting into the system. Redistribution of increased elk herd size on the LO backs sounds like socialism to me.



You don’t have to like the system but it is what is in place. Nothing will ever be perfect but I don’t agree with you that its broken. I honestly feel its ok. Might be a little bent in places but that is called……..life as you said.



You keep pushing your agenda and I will keep pushing from the other side as NM says your not allowed to walk up a dried creek bed to access state land claiming it a “navigable” stream.

 

[cuerro viejo]

[

The whole point of the tags should be to control elk numbers on the ranches that are suffering damage. That doesn't happen with a lot of the transferable tags, in particular the unit wide bull permits. I bet at least half of the LO bull permits are killed on public land and not even close to the ranch that sold the permit.

Also, if a landowner is suffering damage and the idea is control the population, you don't do that by killing bulls. You kill cows, and lots of them.

Also, there are other ways the landowners can be compensated, they can charge trespass fees, they can contract through an outfitter for hunting rights, or, heaven forbid, just allow hunters to shoot the elk for free on their land.

Point is, many want it both ways, the elk are "theirs" when its convenient for them to make money off them, but its the "states elk" when it comes to any inconvenience or damage. Sounds a lot like Corporate America...social losses and privatize profits.

well if the points to ACTUALLY control numbers, then they should up tag numbers 30x on Ranch only and 200x on unit,

Actual numbers of tags are public record.

land owner tag program doesn’t significantly decrease populations, it compensates loses

Alot of those ranches draw unit wide tags but elk dont move that low until after season.

Grew up watching herds of animals get laid over on true Crop Depredation tags, in Jan and fed. This is a much better program that gives actual incentive to tolerate animals. It’s all fun and Games until farmers and Ranchers start stringing up 8’ fences, fencing every thing out.

 

[Trial153]

Land owner tags are transferable and not property specific are just another form of welfare.

 

[Reburn]

[


well if the points to ACTUALLY control numbers, then they should up tag numbers 30x on Ranch only and 200x on unit,

Actual numbers of tags are public record.

land owner tag program doesn’t significantly decrease populations, it compensates loses

Alot of those ranches draw unit wide tags but elk dont move that low until after season.

Grew up watching herds of animals get laid over on true Crop Depredation tags, in Jan and fed. This is a much better program that gives actual incentive to tolerate animals. It’s all fun and Games until farmers and Ranchers start stringing up 8’ fences, fencing every thing out.

Exactly, anybody remember what ranchers did to the antelope? Bison? Is it not easier to work with LO for compensation for building habitat and forage for wildlife then mass depredation of herds? The first way there is more elk for everyone.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Land owner tags are transferable and not property specific are just another form of welfare.

In NM Unit wide tags open ranch up to public hunting. They are for the smaller ranches, that don’t have resident elk for say but experience loose via crop fences etc.

 

[Maverick1]

Looking at picking up a NM elk landowner tag for any of the 16 units or unit 17 this year if the price is right...does anyone know or regularly buy landowner tags from a reputable outfit or person? And what the cost looks like? Thanks in advance and feel free to PM. -Travis Stone


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Wow. This thread has really gone off the rails. The above was the OPs request. Please try to get this back on track.

 

[Brooks]

Landowner tags in NM are based on the meaningful benefit the landowners land provides to elk not damage elk cause.
Great program IMO. For crop damage ranchers have the Jennings law,if they think the elk are doing to much damage to their land.

 

[seldomseensmith]

“Ranch”. That’s quite a loose term in New Mexico. You know how many “ranchers” I know? Every homeboy with a lifted diesel and a bull elk sticker on the back window around here is a rancher.


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[seldomseensmith]

And don’t even get me started with “hunting guides”


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[HankNM]

My little ranch is just for wildlife now, & Rio+ me. Does not pencil out to put any stock on it.
Small oasis. Just installed new solar pump & 1000' of poly, now filling 2 tanks. Only year round water for miles.
Seen some good benefits to elk here with E-PLUS. Elk numbers have grown & antelope too in my area with draw tag increases to show it.

 

[5MilesBack]

Land owner tags are transferable and not property specific are just another form of welfare.

And you're against welfare obviously. Good. So we can agree then that you're against government welfare. That includes cash payments, food stamps, Medicaid, Medicare and SS above what you've put in, etc, etc. Good. I would willingly give up the voucher programs if the states and the Federal government would give up all those other welfare programs. At least the landowners are getting that welfare as a piece of compensation to help offset their losses. Government welfare in general is getting something for nothing, which doesn't really apply to ranchers that are losing crops and fences to wildlife.

But that's just a side note. There's another way to go about this.......you can petition the state to change their voucher programs. Get it on a ballot and let the people choose.

 

[BuzzH]

And you're against welfare obviously. Good. So we can agree then that you're against government welfare. That includes cash payments, food stamps, Medicaid, Medicare and SS above what you've put in, etc, etc. Good. I would willingly give up the voucher programs if the states and the Federal government would give up all those other welfare programs. At least the landowners are getting that welfare as a piece of compensation to help offset their losses. Government welfare in general is getting something for nothing, which doesn't really apply to ranchers that are losing crops and fences to wildlife.

But that's just a side note. There's another way to go about this.......you can petition the state to change their voucher programs. Get it on a ballot and let the people choose.

Why stop there...how about subsidized crop insurance, farm subsidies, wool subsidies, sheep meat subsidies, CRP, WRP, subsidized grazing on public land, too big to fail, bank bailouts, stupidly low corporate tax rates, tax breaks for business, energy sector subsidies of all types, corporate and personal tax deductions of all types, including tax breaks for snot nosed kids, standard deductions, the list goes on and on and on.

Anyone that whines about "welfare" needs to rethink their position, there is nobody that isn't a recipient of, or a beneficiary of a welfare and social program of some kind. That's just a fact.

What gets old is its everyone else's "welfare" that's a problem, just not those that you happen to be a beneficiary of.

Just so you know, nobody that's getting the benefit of social or welfare program is just going to "give it up", whether its a major corporation, a farmer, a rancher, or the single mom on food stamps. The last to give up a single red cent, will be the largest and most influential recipients, and just so you also know, that is NOT that single mom on food stamps.

 

[pirogue]

Wow. This thread has really gone off the rails. The above was the OPs request. Please try to get this back on track.

It went off the rails before the OP hit “post”. Lets’s see, waiting till the last minute(majority of states draws done, premier units in the country, and “reasonable” price? Come on!

 

[TravKatQ]

It went off the rails before the OP hit “post”. Lets’s see, waiting till the last minute(majority of states draws done, premier units in the country, and “reasonable” price? Come on!

It went off the rails before the OP hit “post”. Lets’s see, waiting till the last minute(majority of states draws done, premier units in the country, and “reasonable” price? Come on!

How was my post “off the rails”?? It was a general post asking if anyone knew of tags or reputable people to buy from in these units and what the average is cost is...and where in my post did I mention I was looking for a “reasonable” price?
I do agree this topic took left turn from my op....


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