Non Magnum

[k80Titus]

Trying to make sense and find wisdom
So I see in many posts here and other sites, that many hunters settle on a Non Magnum for all their needs. This after learning/experimenting with magnums.

- They find they do not need to hunt at distances. Most kills are at 100-400, not way out there
- Range finders, better accuracy can deliver a non magnum projectile into the vitals even at 440 +
- The bullets themselves are better
- Spot impact, less recoil, accuracy, etc

So all that being said

A magnum is > than 20 FPS in recoil give or take

-6.5 prc is a magnum
-6.8 western is a magnum
-7 prc is a magnum
-300 wsm wm

is
-6.5 x 55, 6.5 creed
-270
-7-08, 7 mauser, 280AI
-30-06

just better these days or as you gain wisdom ?

 

[hereinaz]

Inside 400 yards, anything you mentioned is gonna be fine. I personally would run something like a 6mm creed with a heavy bullet at that distance. A 6.5 creedmoor is as big as I would feel necessary. I would run a “match bullet”.

Look at the 77 grain tipped match king thread to disabuse yourself of a notion you need big. Certainly not a magnum like you already suggested.

 

[BjornF16]

I think bullets are better constructed today and we know more about wound mechanics.

Still are breaking down some long held beliefs like energy importance vs bullet construction/performance

 

[Unckebob]

Dead is Dead. If I can practice with my 270 rifle because it doesn't beat me up like a magnum, I am more likely to place the bullet where it needs to be and I will be using a projectile designed to work properly.

Why do I need a magnum?

 

[Pharmseller]

7mm-08, 140 gr AB, one shot at 250 yards



7mm-08, 150 gr ELD-X, 3 shots at 409 yards. Dead after the first shot but still standing, so…



7mm-08, 140 Partition, 1 shot at 68 yards so really no test, just proof that sometimes they’re close.




7mm-08, same as above but 346 yards, one shot.




Same as above, but both bucks taken over 525 yards, one shot apiece.



I learned awhile ago that where you hit them matters the most, assuming an appropriate projectile operating within its performance window.

You don’t need a magnum.




P

 

[z987k]

7mm-08, 140 gr AB, one shot at 250 yards

View attachment 572488

7mm-08, 150 gr ELD-X, 3 shots at 409 yards. Dead after the first shot but still standing, so…

View attachment 572490

7mm-08, 140 Partition, 1 shot at 68 yards so really no test, just proof that sometimes they’re close.


View attachment 572491

7mm-08, same as above but 346 yards, one shot.

View attachment 572493


Same as above, but both bucks taken over 525 yards, one shot apiece.

View attachment 572492

I learned awhile ago that where you hit them matters the most, assuming an appropriate projectile operating within its performance window.

You don’t need a magnum.




P

The more I compare cartridge after cartridge and look at recoil vs retained velocity(and to a small extent energy), the 7-08 seems to be right in that sweet spot for an all around hunt anything inside 400 yards cartridge.

 

[Pharmseller]

The Mighty-08 is my main shootin’ iron. I don’t know what it is, but it hits waaaay above its weight class.

The spike I shot at 346 yards is a great example. When I hit him I thought I had missed because when I got the sight picture back after recoil I couldn’t see him. Turns out the 140 Partition absolutely poleaxed him when he stood. Quartering away, the bullet hit the right side of his ribs, took out both lungs, and exited just to the right of his left front leg.

Impressive. Not the biggest bull I’ve shot but he went down right now.




P

 

[huntsman22]

k80titus, What do you think makes a magnum? Are you going off bolt face only? You say the 6.5 PRC is a 'magnum', but the 270 win ain't? Then please explain why nosler's manual lists heavier like charges to 140 grain bullets in the 270 than to 140's in the PRC? Also explain how heavier charges of the same powder recoil less. On the edge of my seat waiting..... GO!

270 win list max loads of 57.5 7828 and 53.5 4831
6.5 PRC list max loads of 52.5 7828 and 52.0 4831

 

[z987k]

k80titus, What do you think makes a magnum? Are you going off bolt face only? You say the 6.5 PRC is a 'magnum', but the 270 win ain't? Then please explain why nosler's manual lists heavier like charges to 140 grain bullets in the 270 than to 140's in the PRC? Also explain how heavier charges of the same powder recoil less. On the edge of my seat waiting..... GO!

270 win list max loads of 57.5 7828 and 53.5 4831
6.5 PRC list max loads of 52.5 7828 and 52.0 4831

Bullet weight plays a large factor in recoil as well. But it looks like he answered your question in his first post. 20fps recoil velocity. So the weight of the gun will also matter a lot. And if it has a brake or suppressor.

 

[huntsman22]

compare apples to apples straight across the board. Identical rifles, set up exactly the same, with the same powder/bullet weight will have the heavier charge recoil more, beings the bore diameters is THAT close in THIS comparison..... Still waiting on HIS explanation, here.....

 

[huntsman22]

A guy could get even more creative and compare 147's in the 6.5 to 150's in the .277.......

 

[hereinaz]

Excellent points above. Many factors. Unless you go short action, you are getting more recoil than you need.

All this talk of magnums vs long action, and recoil, it’s all relative. My 25 SST is a magnum shooting 133 over 3100 fps. Suppressed out of my well fit and configured rifle is way easier to shoot than a Tikka ultralight .270… I took two shots and let my friend zero his own dang rifle.

Recoil is very much dependent on many things. My 7 SS shooting 180 at 3050 fps suppressed is still better than lots of .270 and 30-06 I have shot. Even a buddies .280 ultralight shooting 168 at 2850 punishes me.

I can shoot my rifles all day, magnum or not. Shooting my 6mm rifles suppressed is like nothing at all.

Inside 400, I think the 6.5cm, 7-08 and .308 will satisfy most everyone. There is no need for a long action at all.

 

[Gila]

Depends on what you consider a magnum to be. Used to be that if it was a tall case with a belt it was a magnum. And it usually carries the title “magnum”

Today’s world of hunting bullets are of the VLD variety. They are long sleek bullets with a high BC. A shorter, larger diameter case works well with these new long range bullets. The only thing magnum bout them is that they need a magnum sized bolt face to fit the case. Recoil isn’t really an issue unless you do shoot one of the belted magnums….with the new cartridge designs 6-6.5 mm is good for any big game species on this continent. No need to pound yourself by burning lots of powder If you don’t want to. Having said that I will never give up my 300 win mag.

 

[k80Titus]

You have a good point about 6.5 prc < 270. I stand corrected

but I am just generalizing based on common sentiment that seems to reoccur.
We know you can shoot up or down on any gun. A gun can be any weight as well.

At least by what they post, many will migrate on capable non magnums as do alls and that does seem logical. That 223 77 tmk is a classic thread. Opened my eyes.

I use > 20 Ft lbs as an easy round number.

My sweet spot for sporting clays is 18.5 after 100 birds. I get more recoil sensitive as I get older

I am more beat up if i shoot 1 ⅛ vs 1 assuming both are 1200 FPS. This in an 8 lb gun. If I shoot a heavier gun i can shoot the 1 ⅛ but am equally tired after swinging a nearly 9 lb gun. So lighter gun and a lighter load works for me best at least in Sporting clays. I know mentally I think about the recoil if not in this balance. I tried super light loads but did not like the breaks. So 1 oz 1200. I reload.

I know that to lift weights and get stronger is probably the best answer

 

[Gorp2007]

I know that to lift weights and get stronger is probably the best answer

Lifting weights and getting stronger is always the best option, but no matter how strong you get everyone shoots better with lower recoiling rifles. So just do both!

 

[GAHunterJim]

Trying to make sense and find wisdom
So I see in many posts here and other sites, that many hunters settle on a Non Magnum for all their needs. This after learning/experimenting with magnums.

- They find they do not need to hunt at distances. Most kills are at 100-400, not way out there
- Range finders, better accuracy can deliver a non magnum projectile into the vitals even at 440 +
- The bullets themselves are better
- Spot impact, less recoil, accuracy, etc

So all that being said

A magnum is > than 20 FPS in recoil give or take

-6.5 prc is a magnum
-6.8 western is a magnum
-7 prc is a magnum
-300 wsm wm

is
-6.5 x 55, 6.5 creed
-270
-7-08, 7 mauser, 280AI
-30-06

just better these days or as you gain wisdom ?

I don't think there is any real definition of "magnum" when it comes to cartridges, it's more of a marketing thing, measuring recoil could be subjective so that's not really accurate. Most magnums had a "belt" on the case but some these days don't, like the 7 and 300 PRCs.

A standard cartridge case has a .473 bolt face (308/270/30-06), a magnum has a .532 bolt face (7mm RM/300Win Mag/300 PRC) and then Lapua mags .590.

 

[Unckebob]

Depends on what you consider a magnum to be. Used to be that if it was a tall case with a belt it was a magnum. And it usually carries the title “magnum”

My definition of a "magnum." I could be wrong.

A cartridge designed to throw a bullet (1)) material faster than the standard cartridge(s) for a given caliber and/or (2)) heavier than standard cartridge(s) for a given caliber plus (3) any cartridge that includes the word Magnum or PRC in their named.

Standard cartridges: 243, 6.5CM, 270, 7 RM, 308/30-06, larger cartridge - I don't think their is a standard cartridge.

Examples:
243 -> 6mm CM
6.5CM -> 6.5 PRC
270 -> 277 Fury (with bi-metal cases)
7RM - although it is the "standard" 7mm, it is a magnum.
30-06 - 300WM + many more.

 

[Desk Jockey]

FWIW - i am husky. 260# somewhere between dad bod and CrossFit. I lift 4-5x a week. I don’t think it helps with recoil. My favorite boomers are a 6.5 creed and a 300 win mag.

Shoot a magnum if you want. Different strokes for different folks. The only time you will regret it is when you:

- pay for ammo or components or eventually a new barrel
- blast the hell out of some mid sized critter and lose a bunch of meat
- beat up your shoulder and dork stamp yourself

in fact, I did all three last season.

 

[GAHunterJim]

Having owned magnums up to and including 300 WM, 338 WM and 375 HH, I can tell you that my 6.5 CM is a lot more fun to shoot and for extended sessions. There's a difference between sighting in a magnum kicker for hunting and then putting it in the safe and not firing it again unless at game and a rifle that you enjoy shooting and shoot often.

I have a very nice 7mm RM that is ideally set up for hunting and has been perfection in the field but I only shoot it to check zero before season and at game, never for fun. It's actually very easy to shoot, mostly because of it's great stock design, but I much prefer shooting my CM at the range, same for my 308.

The 7 PRC I just finished will have a bit of magnum bite but I don't think I'll notice much, it will be suppressed and not shot a whole bunch until I've got a deer in the cross hairs.

 

[JohnJohnson]

You're more likely to practice with a rifle that doesn't needlessly punish you when you shoot.