Opinions on my poi change after wads

[JasonWi]

I’m hoping for some opinions as to why I’m seeing such a dramatic difference in my point of impact with a wad.

Same exact charge, 90 grains by volume or 69.0 grains by weight of triple 7 FFG, using 460 grain NE bullets. .503” diameter.

I’d read how wads can sometimes improve accuracy and wanted to see if it improved my personal guns accuracy?

On the NE website I saw it mentioned a person should go up to the next bore size…ie .54 for a .50, .50 for a .45 so I ordered the Ox-yoke originals wonder wad in .54 caliber.

There is approximately about 5” difference, vertically but no change horizontally to my impact. The group is indeed better…is this purely caused from more pressure? Nothing on my Williams peep is loose and exact same lot of powder.

The cardboard target is with a wad and four shots @ 50. The orange dot is a three shot group @ 50. Different days but everything else the same

Thank you so much ahead of time. Thoughts?

 

[Wrench]

Some of the theories on why they help vary from less bullet erosion to some of the lube pushing around the bullet.....regardless they do shoot better and clean up easier.

 

[tkhuntsman]

Agreed I average about half the group size when I'm shooting with an over powder was. I don't exactly know the true science my theory is since the lands are formed into the bullet during loading. The wad helps reduce the deformation of the bullet from the explosion of the powder charge which in turn gives it a better bearing surface on the lands so it has a more consistent and efficient spin which in turn improves the accuracy consistency or smaller group. I do know there's is less lead fouling in my rifling and the lubed was does seem to help keep the powder doing soft. My point of impact is usually about 1" higher and a half inch left of the center of my non wadded shot groups at 75 yards. Again I don't know the exact science but it has worked for me so I sight in with a wadded load and hunt with it. I've even gone so far as to use it on PRB loads with similar results and I have tried using different patch materials and thicknesses without it, but it usually does seem to have an improved effect. Some of the old time traditionalist I shoot with scoff at me but I've done thousands of loads and load development hours with 4 different calibers it just works for me.

 

[tkhuntsman]

On a side note I shoot all sidelock guns mostly caplock but 1 flintlock.

 

[JasonWi]

tkhuntsman thank you for the information. Your opinion makes sense and I intend to test for accuracy at greater distances.

Since this gun is primarily used for black tail hunting my shots are typically under 30 yards…but I’ve been applying for ML tags in other states and this flatter trajectory will be a huge benefit if the accuracy holds at 100.

With that said I’m planning to see my poi and if accuracy remains consistent with 1-2 grains less powder and still using a wad at 50 yards

This is a knight Disc Extreme, using percussion caps. Oregon’s ML rules are super strict like Idaho’s

 

[BPI_Outdoors]

So many times the powder will blow by the base of the bullet. This will cause a change in Your MV. With the change in MV brings the change in point of impact. Point of impact can and will change the size of your group. I have tried all types of wads and found that wool works best for me. Make sure that the base of you bullets have no issues as this too can cause accuracy problems. I normally try to purchase wads that are the same bore size as the bullet being used. Hope this helps.

 

[ENCORE]

I always and without fail use a wad....... I use this for my 45cal.

 

[ElDiablito]

Less initial blow-by as stated. I’ll bet you’d see a marked velocity difference if you checked with a chrony. Base deformation is also a factor in dispersion (group size) as stated.

 

[weisenbu]

I use an Accura V2 50 cal, BH209, CCI primers, and Barnes 250 or 290 TMZ bullets. Can I use wads with my setup? If so, what size? Thanks!

 

[ElDiablito]

I use an Accura V2 50 cal, BH209, CCI primers, and Barnes 250 or 290 TMZ bullets. Can I use wads with my setup? If so, what size? Thanks!

Yes. I’d use a wool wad. Something slightly over .50”. Something like this.

50 Caliber Dry Wool Wads (100 Pack)

50 Caliber Dry Wool Wads (100 Pack) by EASTERN MAINE SHOOTING SUPPLIESWads are made with high density, 100% wool fabric, which specifically allows the wad to compress and cover the entire diameter and rifling, yet return to it's original size. Wads are placed over the powder and under the...

www.midsouthshooterssupply.com

 

[weisenbu]

Thanks ElDiablito. I'll give it a try after the season is over. Appreciate the response.

Do you recommend the dry wads over the lubed wads? I'm guessing the lubed wads may impact ignition over time???

 

[Pickettpuncher]

Dry wads. Helps seal the base of the bullet to give better obturation. Wouldn’t think it’s needed so much with a sabot but definitely useful in bullet to bore applications. I prefer a wool wad, some like a veggie wad.

 

[ElDiablito]

Thanks ElDiablito. I'll give it a try after the season is over. Appreciate the response.

Do you recommend the dry wads over the lubed wads? I'm guessing the lubed wads may impact ignition over time???

No problem. Yeah, with a sabot and Bh209 I’d use a dry. I wouldn’t want any lube adding fouling to the bore. With a conical and some other sub like 777 I’d prob use a lubed wad. Try knurling your Barnes too if you’re not already. That will probably help your groups.

 

[Jethro]

Dry wads. Helps seal the base of the bullet to give better obturation. Wouldn’t think it’s needed so much with a sabot but definitely useful in bullet to bore applications. I prefer a wool wad, some like a veggie wad.

That was going to be my question. Do guys use wads under a sabot bullet?

 

[ElDiablito]

That was going to be my question. Do guys use wads under a sabot bullet?

I’ve done it - I think it protects the base of the sabot and sometimes helps. Can’t hurt. It’s a much bigger deal though with conicals and sized jacketed bullets.

 

[Pickettpuncher]

That was going to be my question. Do guys use wads under a sabot bullet?

I don’t use a sabot so I won’t comment, it could help seal a sabot I would think

 

[weisenbu]

No problem. Yeah, with a sabot and Bh209 I’d use a dry. I wouldn’t want any lube adding fouling to the bore. With a conical and some other sub like 777 I’d prob use a lubed wad. Try knurling your Barnes too if you’re not already. That will probably help your groups.

Thank you. Can you help me understand what knurling the bullets looks like and how it could improve my groups? Thanks again. I’ve learned a ton on this forum.

 

[weisenbu]

Never mind. A quick google search gave me everything I needed to know about knurling!

 

[MuleyFever]

I have 2 friends that I shot with a few years ago. I had just gotten a 45cal and my first shots the bullet hit the target sideways. One of them suggested trying a wad. They happened to have some so I tried it and it completely fixed the issue. This was with a flat base bullet. I have never needed one with the Thor bullet in my 50cal. The interesting part was that they had both tried the wads and had better accuracy without them which is not what you hear from most people.

 

[ElDiablito]

Thank you. Can you help me understand what knurling the bullets looks like and how it could improve my groups? Thanks again.

Knurling with a couple files just creates a rough surface on the bullet that causes it to grip the sabot better. Some have theorized that a slick bullet can slip in the sabot as the sabot is fired (especially at the moment the powder ignites) and travels down the bore. Any inconsistencies can affect groups (dispersion). Most of us have seen improvements in group size (sometimes dramatic ones) by knurling saboted bullets (especially monometal bullets like Barnes). You basically roll the bullet between two files. You can do search on a dedicated muzzy forum like ModernMuzzleloader for more specific info.