Rifled slug gun or muzzleloader?

[rayporter]

i grew up with slugs in ohier and am content with slugs or ML.

not all slug guns are created equal. not all slug ammo is good.

i went from a 20ga to a 12 ga and am shooting ML now.
the 12 was a killer.

right now some slugs are very hard to find. the 12's are easier to find than the 20's. consider this carefully.

 

[EastHumboldt]

Follow up shots would be a big consideration for me.

 

[Remington92]

Grew up in southern Illinois with only options being slug gun or smoke pole at the time. There’s not a snow balls chance in hell I’d ever pick a muzzle loader over something like a bull barrel h&r 20ga or savage 220 with modern sabot slugs like h&r or remington accutip.

For reference I had the h&r and a nice knight bolt action inline, the knight probably hasn’t been fired in 10-15yrs asides from lending to a buddy for his daughter to use in a Colorado youth hunt.

 

[Wapiti1]

I've never had any of these issues, but not saying it can't happen in a hotter climate.

I've tried tons of different sabot/bullet combinations in a couple different Knight rifles as well as my CVA and had virtually the same experience on paper with 90 grains of BH. I've done the harvester crush sabots with different bullets, and while easier to load, accuracy wasn't significantly different. The Barnes T-EZ are good bullets and fairly easy to load and have killed well in the past. For better long range performance and expansion, I've used the Precision Rifle bullets out of Canada. Their all lead 260 grain extreme elite and QT Polymer tipped are excellent bullets and leave big holes.

2 years ago I was out of bullets and picked up the 250 Hornady SST the day before late season opener, because that is all the Scheels had left. To my surprise they shot as good if not better than everything else i've tried. They also loaded very slick, and I've shot up to 10 times without running a patch or scrubbing the barrel.

One thing to note on bullet weights. The heavier you go the tighter they fit with sabots, so you need to pay attention to this. After 4 or 5 shots a 300 grain sabot is gonna be more difficult to load than a 250.

I haven't used black powder, Goex, pyrodex, or Triple 7 in years due to the filthy, nasty, corrosive mess they all are. I had 2 Triple 7 pellets turn to soup overnight when I brought a cold gun into a 60 degree basement in a case!

Blackhorn is a game changer for cleaning and can easily be cleaned out of your barrel with hot water and dish soap.

I did qualify it by saying they can be tempermental. Not all are, I've seen both over the years and watched guys pull their hair out at the range a few times.

I had a TC Omega that was easy to load and shoot. It shot most anything well if you kept the charge below 75 gr BH209 or under 80 with T7. My Savage is temperamental and will shred sabots if you don't keep the barrel cool between shots. It's a faster twist than the Omega (Savage 1:18, TC 1:28). The two Knights (early ones) were also faster twist, 1:20 I think, and harder to load for. But they were tack drivers.

I built an underhammer with a 1:20 twist Omega barrel (early one) and its easy to load and shoot, but it only sees full bore lead conicals.

I've never messed with Encore, CVA or Traditions.

Jeremy

 

[Mt4+4]

I hunted for years with slug guns in ohio until they finally changed the law to include straight wall as well. In my experience the single shot guns were the most accurate such as the tc encore and h&r . I will say i'm more confident taking a 200 yard shot with my ml then any of the slug guns i ever used.

 

[WCB]

I'm on team slug gun. The savage 220s with Fed Trophy Coppers or Remington Accutips shoot lights out to 200yards. I grew up shooting slug guns and shot a lot of 12 gauge and would not advise it.

I shot a 870 smooth bore with a scope on it and with TruBall slugs kill deer out to 175yards. Dad has a Winchester SXP slug gun and with Federal Trophy Coppers shoots a 5" group out to 200 yards.

I have a couple MZ'rs and have no desire to shoot them other than MZ season. #1 ability of a follow up shot. (I know everyone kills them dead first shot....blah blah blah). Also convenience load unload done. I dread every year checking my MZs for zero and practicing. Only part of muzzleloaders that is enjoyable is the extended season...nothing else is appealing.

 

[bullnose]

I echo the comments from the Ohio and Iowa guys. I grew up in Michigan deer hunting with a 12 gauge 870 smooth bore, progressed to another 870 with a rifled Hastings barrel and cantilever scope mount, and then on to an H&R ultra slug in 20 gauge. Thank God the Lead Sled came along because sighting in SUCKED!

When the straight wall rule was passed, I moved on to the .450 Bushmaster, and then to the .350 Legend and never looked back.

I've had a TC Omega MZ for a number of years, but haven't used that since our "MZ Season" changed 5 or 6 years ago to become a later season where you could use shotguns or straight walled rifles.

All in all that covers 42 years... so my advice is to go with a 20 gauge rifled shotgun for the reasons others have stated UNLESS you need to shoot farther, then go with the MZ.

Beware though that sabot slugs are not cheap, and that working up MZ loads is tedious at best, not to mention all the "fun" you will have cleaning the MZ, although Blackhorn 209 made things much easier than it was with Pyrodex and especially Goex.

 

[rootacres]

Another vote for the slug gun. I own both, shot my largest buck to date with my ML. Id still go with the slug gun. A Savage 220 or one of the good single shot options.

That said, where I hunt in MI is a straight wall zone. And because I hunt in a CWD management zone they have legalized "any legal firearm" to be used during ML season. I have gun hunted exclusively with a 450 bushmaster since. I have no intentions to ever for back to a slug gun and due to the laws I haven't picked up my ML. My Ruger Gunsite Scout 450 weighs 8 lbs on the money sling and all. It has a 16" barrel, hits like a hammer. Topped with an Accupoint Im not worried about anything getting too beat up, being hard to maneuver, or dealing with the elements. It's a pleasure to carry in the deer woods.

 

[Novashooter]

As you can see there is no consensus on what is best. There are 4 factors I would consider when choosing.

#1 A dedicated slug gun such as a Savage 212 or 220 with the best slug is not as accurate as even a cheap muzzleloader with the right combo and loading technique. Even the best slug guns out there you are looking at about 3" groups at 100 yards (meaning multiple 5 shot groups), and often it takes work to get there. Many will claim better. None can back up the claims without resorting to multiple 3 shot groups until they get it. Most probably haven't ever shot 25 rounds for groups in one range trip. A junk muzzleloader can be bad, but even a cheap option like a Knight Vision I would expect it to shoot less than 2" at 100 yards. There's nothing but loading technique from keeping a higher end muzzleloader from being as accurate as a good centerfire rifle.

#2 A dedicated slug gun can offer a follow up shot. Bolt actions are not exactly fast, and aren't the most reliable ejector/feeders, but you can reasonably get a second shot on a deer if it is injured such as a spine shot. A pump or semi-auto is an option too for quick follow ups. Most aren't as accurate, but something like an Ithaca Deerslayer can be just as accurate as a Savage bolt. You aren't going to reload a muzzleloader fast enough for a second shot. The thing to keep in mind is how much it matters. You can always bring a handgun with you.

#3 A muzzleloader requires specific skills you need to learn. There's more than weighing powder charges when it comes to getting the best accuracy from a muzzleloader. Loading pressure, swabbing, cleaning, these are all skills that take time to develop, not just for accuracy, but reliability too. On the other hand a slug gun you can buy ammo and assuming you are a decent rifle shooter, don't develop a flinch, you can be shooting a slug gun good too in no time.

#4 Recoil can vary widely. Muzzleloaders come in all sizes, but most people today are going to shoot either 45 or 50 calibers. A 50 caliber loaded to max is not light recoiling by any stretch, but you don't have to stoke them to max. A 20 gauge slug gun, provided it is heavy enough, isn't that horrible, but not enjoyable. It's about like a max loaded 50 caliber muzzleloader. A 12 gauge slug gun can be brutal. It really depends on ammo too. A Savage 212 with scope and loaded is going to be 8.5 to 9 pounds, which helps. Winchester BRI sabot slugs are a 437gr slug at 1350 fps. It probably wont be that bad. An H&R Tracker II is about 5.2 pounds, if you shot something like the Remington Accutip 385 gr at 1900 fps slug, you would probably see stars. That's going to feel in 416 Rigby territory.


I don't know if any of that helps or not. I regularly hunt with both slug guns and muzzleloaders depending on what I feel like. I never worry about the second shot, mainly because I always have one. Even during a muzzleloading season, I carry a muzzleloading handgun with me for a second shot. Also do not downplay the market moving away from dedicated rifled slug guns. States have been dumping their slug season at a regular pace, and both slugs, and slug guns are nowhere as common or plentiful as they were 10 years ago. Sabot slugs are only going to get harder to find and more expensive. The really accurate slugs like Lightfield and Hastings slugs are gone already. Rifled slugs will always be around, don't shy away from them even in a rifled barrel.

 

[hunt1up]

Savage 220 with some Remington Accutips. Done.

I have 3 muzzeloaders and they're all tack drivers. I love using them. But for practical hunting ranges, a run of the mill muzzleloader and a 220 Savage are going to accomplish the same task. The Savage will do it cleaner, faster, and with 3 shots. I have a safe full of blackhorn and muzzleloader stuff but unless it's a ML only season they stay in the safe. No debate for me or anyone I know that deer hunts here in IL. People have either switched to 220s or they complain each season about how they haven't bought one yet.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Custom muzzle loader all day.

Patriot Valley Arms smokeless muzzle loader barrel spun up for the action of your choosing (switch barrel that you run centerfire barrels with too), and then feed it Pittman or Arrowhead bullets.

Far more effective than a standard ML or slug gun.

If it has to be off the shelf buy a quality ML and feed it blackhorn 209 and Hornady SST's.

 

[Novashooter]

Savage 220 with some Remington Accutips. Done.

I have 3 muzzeloaders and they're all tack drivers. I love using them. But for practical hunting ranges, a run of the mill muzzleloader and a 220 Savage are going to accomplish the same task. The Savage will do it cleaner, faster, and with 3 shots. I have a safe full of blackhorn and muzzleloader stuff but unless it's a ML only season they stay in the safe. No debate for me or anyone I know that deer hunts here in IL. People have either switched to 220s or they complain each season about how they haven't bought one yet.

Why would you? You can use rifles in Illinois now.

 

[hunt1up]

Why would you? You can use rifles in Illinois now.

We can use certain straight wall single shot rifles. I've been quite tempted to go to a 350 legend at some point. The 220 still has the advantage of holding 3 rounds with similar kill ranges to the legal rifle calilbers. If our DNR will allow 3 rounds in a straight wall rifle I'd probably look at going that direction.

I know a lot of IL hunters and no one is jumping to rifles yet. I think because most people aren't familiar with the calibers that are legal and because they're single shot.

 

[rayporter]

the ol H &R ultra slugger was the greatest slug gun.

i killed 2 deer in ten seconds with one twice. wish i had kept it, but it went when straight walls were legal.

magazines are severely over rated.

 

[100 others]

Some muzzleloaders can be extremely accurate, and some slug guns can be pretty damn accurate. The difference being that bullet selection/availability is better with the muzzy and the lighter bullets can have a slightly higher BC and velocity than available slug loads. If you can handle the recoil of a slug gun then you can get surprisingly good groups too, I'm willing to bet a lot of the inconsistency people see comes from flinching with both setups. Where I currently hunt I'm restricted to archery or shotgun so I've been on a bit of a mission to squeeze accuracy out of slugs. Remington Accu-tips have shot the most accurate out of both my Rem 11-87 and Savage 212, but the velocity is about 300fps under advertised so I use the SST's which still shoot good but have better ES, BC, and velocity. I got drawn for a shotgun or muzzleloader deer hunt and I'm absolutely taking this over my TC.

P.S. A slip-on recoil pad helps a lot too!

My Savage 212 with ghetto-custom test turret shooting at 300y:

This is the only group picture I could find for my shotgun without other groups intermixed. A sighter and 5-shot group from my 11-87 with SST's at 100y, adjusted up for a 150y zero:

 

[Novashooter]

the ol H &R ultra slugger was the greatest slug gun.

i killed 2 deer in ten seconds with one twice. wish i had kept it, but it went when straight walls were legal.

magazines are severely over rated.

I still have mine. They might not be the end all be all, but the accuracy of them is every bit as good as the Savages.The USH are easier to shoot too because of the weight and stock shape.

 

[Novashooter]

We can use certain straight wall single shot rifles. I've been quite tempted to go to a 350 legend at some point. The 220 still has the advantage of holding 3 rounds with similar kill ranges to the legal rifle calilbers. If our DNR will allow 3 rounds in a straight wall rifle I'd probably look at going that direction.

I know a lot of IL hunters and no one is jumping to rifles yet. I think because most people aren't familiar with the calibers that are legal and because they're single shot.

To each his own. You could buy a Henry single shot in 360 Buckhammer and double your effective range with half the recoil, and 1/4 the ammo cost. Even less of you reload.

I only bring this up to point out to the OP that states are dumping slug guns. There's special seasons, but there's really only 3 states that still require them for a large portion of the state anymore. Minnesota is one, but even there handguns of any caliber have always been legal. "Handguns" in 308 Winchester and similar are extremely common. That's on top of the fact they are on the cusp of eliminating that requirement anyway.

 

[Shraggs]

Before straight wall I used both in Michigan based on my set up. ML if on a field with longest kill 254 yds. If more timber and close the 12 ga pump got the nod.

As mentioned, both work allow your set up to guide you.

That said, haven’t touched either since laws allow.