Shoot a wolf...go to jail

[itsTyrtruion]

I identify as a wolf, and technically I am the alpha, so its ok for me to kill my own kind. I do so for breeding rights and territorial ownership.

yea... im somewhat kidding, but I think theres precedence to this starting to show up...

 

[Murdy]

I’m no lawyer, but when a law has jail time listed specifically I would imagine it becomes much harder to avoid said jail time than a law with only fines included.

Even misdemeanors in most states (probably all) list some jail time as a possible sentence. They line between felony and misdemeanor is a year sentence (year or more, it's a felony). Much of time, the penalty is simply a fine (or fine + probation, community service, etc.).

 

[Where's Bruce?]

Hunters have killed people (mistakenly for game) and not gone to jail. We need to cull the antis. The are bad for the gene pool. LOL

 

[Beendare]

I brought this up solely to illustrate the fight we have on our hands as hunters.....the antis are coming for us. Ignore it at you own risk.

I will not continue to argue the minutia of this case that dragged on for years in court.....or whether attorneys on staff paid with taxpayer dollars is really costing us [?]....I think all of that takes away from the central issue;

We are being unfairly attacked at every turn....and we as hunters need to stick together. Its similar to the gun debate; they can't take away our guns...so they go after the manufacturers, ammo restrictions.....in essence they chip away.

Our hunting heritage is a political hot button whether we like it or not. A little bit of involvement by all hunters would blow away the antis.

 

[nexus]

I brought this up solely to illustrate the fight we have on our hands as hunters.....the antis are coming for us. Ignore it at you own risk.

I will not continue to argue the minutia of this case that dragged on for years in court.....or whether attorneys on staff paid with taxpayer dollars is really costing us [?]....I think all of that takes away from the central issue;

We are being unfairly attacked at every turn....and we as hunters need to stick together. Its similar to the gun debate; they can't take away our guns...so they go after the manufacturers, ammo restrictions.....in essence they chip away.

Our hunting heritage is a political hot button whether we like it or not. A little bit of involvement by all hunters would blow away the antis.

I would wholeheartedly agree, we as a community are constantly under attack from those who disagree with our interests. As such we need to make sure we present clear and irrefutable facts in our fight against these forces. The sole point for my asking questions and posting requests for support information was to clarify that the lawsuit, and all available information I could find, never mention mandatory jail time. Therefore, barring any additional clarification of information, the fight in this case should be more accurately summarized as "Accidentally shoot a wolf...get prosecuted". l would suspect this elicits a significantly different reaction from the majority of forum members. Should the case have advocated for mandatory sentencing of jail time for accidental shootings as implied, of course I would have been shoulder to shoulder with you on this point. That is exactly why I wanted to know the specifics, in order to write Congressmen and Senators. But, I am not going to "cry wolf" to these representatives unless I have the facts.

Our hunting heritage should be a point of pride and honor. But in this specific case, MY OPINION is there is no room for hunters not taking responsibility for their actions in the field. It is these same folks and their actions that often serve as the fuel used by anti-hunters to push legislation and regulations to limit those of us who do practice responsibility in the field. I agree with you that the messenger in this specific case (WEG) is clearly not a supporter of hunting or hunters, but I believe the outcome is consistent with the teachings of hunters throughout the world - respect the game, know that your actions in the field have consequences, and take responsibility for your actions.

 

[Beendare]

We already have laws for this^

So why do we need an animal rights outfits spin of what should happen?

 

[nexus]

We already have laws for this^

So why do we need an animal rights outfits spin of what should happen?

To answer your question, I am not going to assume that everyone has read the materials I provided. A legal action was filed against the DOJ in 2014 because DOJ was not following the law (WEG's opinion). The law did clearly state that the harming or killing of an ESA animal is a crime and requires prosecution in court to determine the subsequent penalty. It was WEG's contention that the DOJ was taking this process upon themselves (cop, judge, & jury), outside the mechanisms of the existing law. WEG used a very basic principal underlying our legal system - laws shall not be applied willy-nilly (arbitrary and capricious). The court agreed. No new laws. No new spin. I will say it again, I would be right there with you if this thing had teeth and meant anything new with regards to our rights.

Just a couple weeks ago, a similar situation happened to an Anti-hunter group from Florida (OneProtest) that was all up in arms about changes to regulations on some Alaskan federal lands that would allow "Cruel Hunting Practices". I'm sure most of you remember the post about killing bear cubs and baiting with doughnuts (NBC News May 2018). The protesters flew to Alaska and were all set to raise hell; when they got an education about the facts of the changes. Needless to say, the protesters wound up apologizing to the people of Alaska, the Game Commission, and removed their attacks on the internet. The MeatEater podcast has a great discussion at 2:08:30 of the podcast a couple weeks ago. The clear presentation of the facts prevailed.

This is why I say the facts matter. The only way to have any credibility and "potential" to educate opposing parties is to provide clear and complete facts - NO SPIN NEEDED.

Sorry, to drone on, but I watch for attacks on our heritage and respond to those in government to try and make a difference. As such, I am also very protective of the communities credibility with these same powers. I do appreciate posts like this (thank you Beendare) bringing these issues to light, it frequently is a means that I too learn about the attacks.