The future of Lead

amassi

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Maybe there is and I’m unaware of it but why don’t we have any bullets with bismuth, hevi shot or another lead replacement in them for a core?
Cost and lack of market share.

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Hnthrdr

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I hope tungsten isn’t the go too… that stuff is expensive! Anyone who shoots tss Turkey loads knows what I’m talking about… but that penetration is no joke!
 

Bubblehide

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their ability to break movers down

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Break them down killing them, yes exactly. There ability to bust through bone and kill here in the states, yes.

I have killed literally hundreds and hundredsbof animals with copper bullets, several hundred feral pigs alone. Like many here can attest, copper bullets flat out kill. Granted, for long range hunting, I prefer lead, as it expands at lower volicities, making lead more effectuve at those type of distances. But to say copper has no advantage is just ignoring the facts, or a simple lack of understanding.
 

wyojdubya

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Those that point to impacts to recreational shooting and related federal funding streams are right to be concerned about indirect impacts to wildlife management.

But directly as a hunter, the absence of lead wouldn't matter much to me. I shoot monos and love them for my needs. Same goes for bismuth for winged critters. I kill a fair amount of big game, upland birds, and waterfowl every year, and just can't see the price differential on non-toxic ammo adding up in comparison to all the other stuff we buy. (Like someone else said in this thread, stack it deep when you find it cheap.)

Granted, two little kids eat the things I shoot, and I'm not interested in feeding them lead. Lord knows how much 7 1/2 shot I ate as a kid from quail and dove downed with a Winchester 37. Surely that's the source of the stupidity my spouse complains about.
 

Yoder

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The writing is on the wall. I made the switch a couple years ago. Yes I live in CA but I hunt out of state a lot too. 3 different out of state hunts this fall. I still transitioned all my rifles over. I don’t miss lead at all. With good mono bullets nowadays, I don’t see any advantages to lead anymore. I’d rather be first out the door than last.
You would see the advantage if you shot 10k rounds a year. I enjoy shooting in pistol competitions. This would probably increase my ammo cost by 10x and make it completely impossible to buy. It's not about saving Eagles, It's about control and taking our guns.
 

displacedtexan

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Not a meaningful measure of killing ability though Is it? Many fmj bullets enjoy 100% weight retention yet they make poor killers.

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In and of itself, no.

But since at the proper velocity monos expand very reliably, it can be a good thing.

At any rate, it's not a facet where lead is definitely and clearly superior.
 

z987k

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Maybe there is and I’m unaware of it but why don’t we have any bullets with bismuth, hevi shot or another lead replacement in them for a core?
I was thinking about this the other day. The only real issue I see with monos is to get to or past the BC's that lead has, they end up quite long. Which requires a faster twist than just about anything is chambered in from the factory. A solution is to get something more dense in there to get the weight up. We need a metal more dense than lead, that isn't so hard to alloy or bond with. The best candidates cost way too much. The best metal by far would be gold.
 

JFK

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While I’d be firmly against a ban on lead, it’s short sighted to to think that copper/lead free can’t be further improved upon. Innovation is happening now in big companies and smaller bullet makers around the country. I’ve been shooting copper for about 8 years now and its worked well. Accurate and stuff seems to die. Minimal meat loss is an added benefit though not a sole reason to use it.
 

displacedtexan

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While I’d be firmly against a ban on lead, it’s short sighted to to think that copper/lead free can’t be further improved upon. Innovation is happening now in big companies and smaller bullet makers around the country. I’ve been shooting copper for about 8 years now and its worked well. Accurate and stuff seems to die. Minimal meat loss is an added benefit though not a sole reason to use it.
Possibly a sidebar...

But it's always confused me that people will buy the newest technology in guns, glass, and clothes... But are convinced that we hit the absolute pinnacle of bullet design decades ago.
 

amassi

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Possibly a sidebar...

But it's always confused me that people will buy the newest technology in guns, glass, and clothes... But are convinced that we hit the absolute pinnacle of bullet design decades ago.
Well all of those things are improvements or seemingly improve on some part of your kit. And until some company designs a non toxic bullet that kills as well as lead in as many situations then all the new designs in the world won't outdo the decades old design.

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ODB

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A very good question. Part of the issue with older cartridges and mono bullets is the length of the bullet. I can get 2500 fps with a lead bullet in my. 9.3 but no where near it with a TSX. The 7x57 also suffers the same fate.

I’m going to ask that question of some folks and see what they say…

@TheTone

Ok, a follow up. I chatted with the guys from North Fork bullets, which are now made in Sweden. They are a hybrid in that they only have lead in the front half of the bullet. (I use the 9.3 and it’s amazing) They mentioned the hardness of the non-toxic material and the difficulty in bonding it to the copper jacket prevents them from using it.

However, I did learn they are working on an all copper bullet they hope to release soon.
 
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Rich M

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Possibly a sidebar...

But it's always confused me that people will buy the newest technology in guns, glass, and clothes... But are convinced that we hit the absolute pinnacle of bullet design decades ago.
You will have s difficult time beating a Nosler Partition in dropping an animal and getting full penetration. That’s the pinnacle to beat.

I try coppers in my old guns and the groups open up. We need a heavier shorter bullet and im sure there will be one in the future.

Same deal w me loading tungsten into a 38 spcl shotshell for rats and snakes. Gonna try some larger pellets too cause tungsten will penetrate. Might be the next super self defense load. But an xtp HP is gonna drop a perp. So which do you go w?

Anyway. Long copper is nice in new guns. The remaining 350 million/billion like shorter bullets.
 
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