The resident short game. Long term consequences?

[5MilesBack]

I started hunting before all these youth laws came into play, had a license at 8 yrs old.

I started big game hunting when CO's minimum age was 15. Now it's 12. There's been this push over the last how many years to "add new hunters" to the equation. Well, here we are.....the Western states now have more hunters and hunting demand than the states can support........just like our southern borders. When you have numbers like that........something has to give.......and it will.......to the destruction of our nation and our hunting heritage. We're seeing it all right before our eyes. I'm just glad that I got to enjoy it as long as I have.

With the demand we're seeing these days, there will always be negative consequences for all.......not just residents, and not just NR's.

 

[307]

Sometimes a fella just needs to throw a good tantrum when they aren't getting their way. It's cleansing, like a good bowel movement, with about the same overall result.

 

[Turkeygetpwnd38]

Most people will fight for/do what is in their best interest, which is understandable. Most people are also extremely short sighted. I don't want to awaken he who must not be named, but imagine he will be here shortly anyways.
The Wyoming one gets me. They can get elk tags OTC that take NR 3-5 years to draw, mule deer tags OTC that take 4-7, arguably the best public land in the state you cannot hunt unless you take a resident along with you or pay an outfitter a lot of money. Now they want first dibs at leftovers and likely will push for 90/10 across the board. It would not surprise me in the future, to access any public land, you need the written permission of a resident who also hunts there . All coming from the state with the smallest population of the 50.
I can already hear the responses, don't get too worked up, I am a lowly nobody nonresident, I already know I don't have to hunt there, don't have to apply, and that I don't matter!

 

[MuleyFever]

Another good example of how the hunter will eventually lose out to the ant-hunter. Here we are dividing while they are working together. OP is correct in that eventually the non-resident will stop caring about the threats to hunting in the west as they wont have any motivation to care when they can barely hunt there. While this is happening the anti's are still working together, no matter which state they live in. I will admit when I have seen the posts about hunting opportunity threats in some states, like WA and OR, I pretty much ignore them. Too many anti-hunting left wing nut jobs in those states and I wont ever hunt there so why worry about it. Eventually the majority of hunters will feel the same way about CO or MT or other states.

 

[Justin Crossley]

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of where all funding related to public lands comes from. My guess would be that a lot of the less populated, western states are benefiting from funding generated in the more populated coastal states where wages are generally a lot higher. I have no data on that, just a guess and worth considering in these discussions.

Somehow, we all need to come together and start thinking big picture. I think very few of us look past what we feel is best for us personally regardless of the long-term consequences.

 

[cfdjay]

NIMBY is alive and well. (Not In My Backyard).

"We need more hunters to preserve our heritage" *whispers* "Just not here".

"The town needs a new Firehouse" *whispers* "Just don't build it near me, all those pesky sirens"

The list goes on and on of examples of this great irony and debate.

Living in a top whitetail destination I see the pitfalls of NR run amuck with no management. I too am in favor of responsible NR tag allocation. Believe it or not I'm in support of balance. Which I think we've gotten so far away from because of politics and money we've come to this. And yes I understand "balance" is subjective.

See one of the greatest ironies is that many people become NR hunters because of the lack of opportunities in their own state due to NR!

 

[Laramie]

Man the doom and gloom is getting bad... you guys are depressing.

We are living in what our kids will call the good old days. Enjoy them fellas. Even if 90/10 passes for all species in Wyoming, and residents get first opportunity at leftovers, a guy could still hunt there 2-3 times a decade if he isn't chasing elkzilla. I am doubting our grandkids will have anywhere near those opportunities.

 

[Justin Crossley]

Man the doom and gloom is getting bad... you guys are depressing.

We are living in what our kids will call the good old days. Enjoy them fellas. Even if 90/10 passes for all species in Wyoming, and residents get first opportunity at leftovers, a guy could still hunt there 2-3 times a decade if he isn't chasing elkzilla. I am doubting our grandkids will have anywhere near those opportunities.

This is exactly why we should have these discussions and try to alter course. Are we really okay with knowing our children and grandchildren won't be able to enjoy the same hunting opportunities we have?

We should ALL be working together to make sure our hunting heritage is available and accessible to future generations.

 

[Tater1973]

Justin Crossley - you pretty much nailed it with your quote..."Somehow, we all need to come together and start thinking big picture. I think very few of us look past what we feel is best for us personally regardless of the long-term consequences."

 

[Laramie]

This is exactly why we should have these discussions and try to alter course. Are we really okay with knowing our children and grandchildren won't be able to enjoy the same hunting opportunities we have?

We should ALL be working together to make sure our hunting heritage is available and accessible to future generations.

I don't disagree but our energy is pointed in the wrong direction. States will absolutely go to 90/10 eventually. If non-residents decide that is the straw that will cut off their funding to the organizations that work to preserve opportunities, improve habitat, and ultimately help sustain huntable populations, we will see a faster decline in overall opportunities imo.

 

[roadrunner]

I started hunting before all these youth laws came into play, had a license at 8 yrs old.

There was no special this or that. My dad just took me with him every time.

What we have is a bunch of jokers who wont take their kids hunting unless it is a special day. Its bullshit.

Take your kid or dont but needing special days is absurd. Its a copout for folks to wait for youth day to take their kids hunting.

Thats why im against it. Would rather see an extra day added to the season. But no we need special feel good crap for kids and vets in my state. Why cant they just go hunt?

So, since you decided today was the "another day", nobody really cares that you walked to school two miles in the snow uphill both ways.

Things were different "back then" just like things are different today. Back then, you went hunting with an OTC tag, as did I. Most hunting today is either costly because of private land, or, public land draw. The resource is either at or below status quo with an influx in demanders. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

In reality, the jokers also put their kids in for prime hunts that you think should only go to you because you think you're entitled, uh, I mean, you "earned" the right.

I didn't realize that little Johnny was such a threat to you...

 

[tdhanses]

There are different on opinions on these topics, but one thing is evident, sadly, the ship has sailed for hunting big game the way it used to be. Get used to it because even more change and resistance to non res hunting is coming.

I for one am really happy the non resident hunting regulations changed in Idaho. The same number of opportunities still exist, but now all of the pressure can’t be concentrated in just a few areas. I noticed a DRAMATIC impact last season, finally!!! We didn’t see 30 non resident outfits in every trail head, maybe a bit of exaggeration but just a bit.

I am an Idaho resident, basically retired, and have NEVER drawn a lmited entry deer or elk tag, I’ve been putting in my whole life to have an opportunity. I really don’t care to see any of our limited opportunities go to non residents. I would like to have that chance at least once In my life. i would also like to see my family have the opportunity, I’ve paid my taxes and supported our wildlife and habitat for many, many years, I don’t owe any non residents anything. This is where we live, our home, this IS “our game” it certainly doesn’t equally belong to a non resident, is that what your saying? If it is, then that’s a really dumb statement.

I have seen our hunting areas drastically affected by non resident hunting over the past decade, to the degree that my family as residents have had to completely change our game. Poor predator management, a few bad winters, drought, and the excessive amount of non resident hunters over the past six or seven years, our deer and elk herds are severely depleted, now we have to deal with the population growith and shift as well.

i don’t have any sympathy for the non resident hunters, it is what it is, stay home and focus on the hunting opportunities where you live. Don’t move here, it’s too late for that too.

The short game is to get residents more tags, totally agree, it’s about time. Maybe a rough attitude, but that’s where it is now. Reality.

Why is it too late to move there? Because you don’t want priced out? In the end the states loyalty to you is only today, they will gladly take NR money in the forum of them becoming residents and paying way more for property then the current value is therefore increasing property taxes received.

Enjoy what you have had as a resident in the past but look at CO for your future as more people become residents.

 

[stonewall]

This has certainly been on my mind of late. I know opportunities for me, and especially my kids are quickly decreasing.

I'd move to Wyoming in a heart beat if I were just me. But as long as my family and my wife's family is in Texas, I'll choose family over hunting. I'm not sure what else I can do about it. So I'm pretty much a NR in every state.

A late friend of mine who got me into elk hunting to begin with, drew two bull tags in a premium New Mexico unit. i believe one was in the 90s, and one in the early 2000s. We all know now how unlikely it is to ever draw such a tag. My first elk hunt was a cow tag in New Mexico - NRs can't draw those tags at all now. One thing he used to say, and I really agree, was that there was a purity in western hunting...that it's real, actual hunting. In Texas it's for the most part a pay to play thing - there's just something really off to me about paying x to shoot y animal

 

[5MilesBack]

This is exactly why we should have these discussions and try to alter course. Are we really okay with knowing our children and grandchildren won't be able to enjoy the same hunting opportunities we have?

We should ALL be working together to make sure our hunting heritage is available and accessible to future generations.

There is coming a time when none of this will matter. It doesn't take an economist or a soothsayer to see the writing on the wall. Our country is going bankrupt......plain and simple. Many other nations are already there or going there fast as well. It doesn't matter whether you're a Christian or not.......believing Bible prophesy doesn't even take much faith at this point because we're seeing it all transpire before our eyes......not to mention all the prophesies that have already happened as predicted.

That "one world government" and "one world currency" and "cashless society" is coming.....and quickly from the looks of it. IMO the only way we get to that is if America collapses......we're well on our way obviously. At that point, people will be doing whatever they have to do for survival......not as a hobby or American past time. Hunting tags and legal hunting will be the least of folk's worries. We already know how this all ends.

 

[Bighorner]

Here is the glaring reality I see. Anti hunters will continue to support their cause regardless of what they can personally take away from resources.

Hunters, very clearly, will only support habitate and conservation if they get to hunt the resources, every year, with great access and great numbers, and someone to take their grip and grin.

I love to hunt, but it paints a pretty shallow picture of hunters. You don't have to look at this thread very long to see people pretty much care about killing and trophies and doing it on a damn regular basis.

All you chest beaters that want to sell whatever it is that dosent benefit you directly are petty damn poor representatives of what your proport to to love.

The idea that wilderness is worthless unless you can hunt it floors me. I have zero interest as a resident to get that changed. Let the the tree huggers and anti hunters enjoy it. You dont deserve it. If you want to stop putting your money where your mouth is on habitats and access, save it up and go shoot your texas elk for all I care. Being pissed you can't be guaranteed to hunt another state for a struggling animal like sheep blows me away.

You want to complain about cost. It is by and large NR who have set the price on the open market by paying outrageous tresspass fees (which actually hurts overall access) and paying for $7,000 elk hunts. You as a group have literal set the price. The state is following your lead on what you are willing to pay.

Your dollars will be replaced. Your tag will go to someone else. Empty threats of hunting going down the tube because you cant get your blue chip tag every year is just writing on the wall of where we are already at. You obviously are not up on regulations and heard health. You are pretty much an internet warrior sitting on key board making threats. Take your ball and go home.

 

[realunlucky]

Take your ball and go home.

You've summed it up.
Change the rules to game so you can win easier and then call everyone else poor sports.



Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

 

[Bighorner]

You've summed it up.
Change the rules to game so you can win easier and then call everyone else poor sports.



Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

I literally have argued for keeping preference out of left over draws. You are literally alienating the few people that are up on regulation and want to see equity in the system. Your greed and selfishness blows me away.

Please get me up to speed on Utahs allocation? I've heard nothing but bad things about anyone, including residents getting tags.

Quoting 7 words out of 450 just reinforces your small view of what is going on. Yes please take you ball and go home.

 

[bozeman]

Take your ball and go home is the way of the world........I sent our RMEF contact the very questions being asked here. Interesting to see what response, if any, I get.

 

[Bighorner]

Take your ball and go home is the way of the world........I sent our RMEF contact the very questions being asked here. Interesting to see what response, if any, I get.

With the name of Bozeman coming g from Alabama....

 

[CorbLand]

I've long argued in Iowa that the early youth muzzleloader season exists solely so dad can brag to his buddies. There's 4 and 5 year olds that can't spell their own name shooting net Booner whitetails off a tripod with dad doing everything but pulling the trigger (and maybe doing that too.) Reading some of the stories in Epic or HF, seems like that's not an exclusive thing to Iowa.

Wait are you saying that parents sometimes just want to live vicariously through their kids? Kind of like all the dads at the Utah trail camera meeting sending their kids to the mic with the statement the dad wrote or how they only use cameras because of their kids. People use their kids because if a 10 year old says something and I disagree with it, I am the asshole.