Vap SS arrow failures or success???

[Versydus]

Long story short, I've had 2 arrow shaft failures just behind the outsert on 2 different bulls. Shafts busted clean off. Heading to Alaska moose hunting this next fall and am questioning my setup for durability.

Success was in that both bulls went a cumulative 100 yards total so YAH me! $40 busted arrow... sh*t.

Setup was 29" carbon to carbon, victory inserts, iron will heads out of a 70# bow. Arrows were built by SVA in spokane.

All three bulls were quartering away from me at 20-50 yards, impacts on inside of opposite shoulder. I really like the arrows, they fly fantastic just wondering if this is normal and second is there more durable components I should switch to.

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[Mighty Mouse]

I don't shoot micro diameter (4mm/.166") arrows, but if I did, a Deep Six hidden insert (HIT) is the only insert I would consider using. You would need new broadheads with Deep Six threads if you were to make that switch though.

IMO a 5mm/.204" arrow with standard threaded (8-32) HIT is a good compromise for those who want to shoot a smaller diameter but don't want to switch to Deep Six components.

 

[alabamahunt]

I shoot the RIP TKO’s and I doubt there’s a tougher arrow. I much prefer the 204 and brass hits. The .166 with the victory outserts have so much leverage hanging over the tip of the carbon shaft vs a hit insert. Which I think is why they probably break towards the front end. It’s basically like putting a 3ft cheater pipe (outsert) over a wrench to try to break a bolt loose vs a 1ft cheater pipe (HIT).. hope that makes sense. I wouldn’t not have confidence in them tho… they obviously kill.

 

[Zac]

Valkyrie, or the Snyder Core are only good options. Of course the HIT is basically the same thing.

 

[5MilesBack]

Long story short, I've had 2 arrow shaft failures just behind the outsert on 2 different bulls. Shafts busted clean off.

I don't need three strikes to move on. Once could be a fluke, but two is a pattern to me. Durability is right up there with consistency and accuracy at the top of my list for arrows and components. There are tougher arrows out there.

 

[Zac]

I don’t really understand what the SS versions of those shafts are supposed to provide. Seems they may not even be as durable as their all carbon counterparts. From here it just looks like unnecessary weight and a cool name.

 

[dtrkyman]

That is crazy the both broke in nearly identical spots, and not what I would consider a weak point of your arrow build.

I would assume they both broke off after being stuck in the bulls and the bull began to run, if that is the case it is of no concern, but there is no way to tell for sure!

 

[Versydus]

Thanks for all the input. I'm all ears of there is a better shaft out there, I'm still a believer in the pro's of the micro diameter arrows but just ultimately I think I need the best setup possible.

The SS version was supposed to increase the durability on the shaft itself. I spoke with Victory's guys directly on Monday and they reiterated that that was the best shaft for the application I was going for.

Any real world experience with Day Six arrows? Or the Grizzly sticks?

I think I'm gonna switch to Ethics inserts, and hot melt them in. Then run a smaller grain broad head than I have in the past. That should give me a inner shank that extends past where these two failed.

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[MattB]

That is crazy the both broke in nearly identical spots, and not what I would consider a weak point of your arrow build.

I would be willing to bet they both snapped right behind the internal portion of the half out and that is exactly where the weak spot would be given the leverage the half out and broadhead would have against that spot on that shaft, so no surprise here. That is why guys sleeve/use footers on some shafts to strengthen that spot.

To the OP. I would definitely change up the shafts and more specifically the BU interface. That is an unacceptable performance.

 

[dtrkyman]

Is there a post in there, look like standard outserts not half outs, but that would likely explain the identical break.

Old school Bemans had the outsert with no internal post, shafts were bomb proof but the outserts were prone to bending not breaking. I killed 13 deer with one 60/80 Beman arrow over a few years back in the day.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Thanks for all the input. I'm all ears of there is a better shaft out there, I'm still a believer in the pro's of the micro diameter arrows but just ultimately I think I need the best setup possible.

The SS version was supposed to increase the durability on the shaft itself. I spoke with Victory's guys directly on Monday and they reiterated that that was the best shaft for the application I was going for.

Any real world experience with Day Six arrows? Or the Grizzly sticks?

I think I'm gonna switch to Ethics inserts, and hot melt them in. Then run a smaller grain broad head than I have in the past. That should give me a inner shank that extends past where these two failed.

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If you're switching broadheads anyway and are intent on sticking with a micro diameter shaft, go with the Iron Will Snyder Core system. That's the most robust micro diameter insert system available, bar none.

 

[Versydus]

I'll look into that system. I was thinking of dropping down to a 100 or 125 grn head. Plan to stick with IW but go to a single bevel.



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[Zac]

That is crazy the both broke in nearly identical spots, and not what I would consider a weak point of your arrow build.

I would assume they both broke off after being stuck in the bulls and the bull began to run, if that is the case it is of no concern, but there is no way to tell for sure!

That is obviously the weak spot in the shaft.

 

[stanginthe11s]

you stuck an arrow in the offside shoulder of an elk and the arrow broke. this will happen every time with every arrow made. the fact that you took that shot 3 times means you pick that shot, so maybe aim for a different spot on the animal or be happy you got meat for 40$. the location of the break is the distance between the shoulder bone and the rib roughly, when an animal moves it will snap that shaft.
this is not meant to take away from what has been posted, as it is all true. I also shoot micro's and no longer use them for hunting because there is no actual benefit, they cost more and offer nothing. a fatter shaft will be stronger that a thin shaft, so if you need more durability get away from micro dia.

 

[5MilesBack]

I've been shooting the RIP TKO's for the past three years with 75gr brass HIT's and 125's....no collars. I'm shooting just over 70lbs at almost 33" draw, and I haven't broken or damaged one of these arrows yet.

But the toughest arrows I've ever shot were the Trophy Ridge Crush 300's that I had. Unfortunately they discontinued them. And if they still made them, and in a 250 or 200 spine, I'd still be shooting them. I hit one of them solid on the back end and blew the nock apart, and all it did to the shaft was put a small half moon indent in the shaft. I cut 1/4" off it, put a new nock in, and kept shooting it. Later that year I put that arrow through both shoulder blades on a 6x6 bull. The arrow stayed in both blades as the bull ran off. When I recovered the arrow the BH had broken off and the arrow was covered in blood from tip to tip. The arrow was fine, and I shot another 6x6 bull with it three years later.

If you want a super tough arrow, try the Sirius Apollo's (.204") or Orion's (.166"). But with those .166's you're still dealing with components that become the weak leak IMO.

 

[MattB]

Is three a post in there, look like standard outserts not half outs, but that would likely explain the identical break.

Old school Bemans had the outsert with no internal post, shafts were bomb proof but the outserts were prone to bending not breaking. I killed 13 deer with one 60/80 Beman arrow over a few years back in the day.

The OP said insert and looking at the VAP website it looks like he is using their half outs.

Those Bemans were really strong when you hit something straight on but the Hunters failed pretty badly when they glanced or angled off of a hard object.

 

[meleagris1]

I’m shooting all carbon micro VAP TKO Elites and I’ve run these things through multiple bulls bears and bucks. I’ve broken one shaft and that was snapped by an elk shoulder blade as he took off running. Literally the toughest shafts I have ever used from either my recurve or compound.

 

[Bigborealaska]

I shot one of my Vap SS arrows into a target at the range while adjusting the tension on my release and it let go too soon (my fault) and buried it in the 2x6 wrapped with sheet metal. When the range put the puller on it to remove it the arrow snapped in that exact spot right behind the insert. It had a bit of side force i'm sure to do that and i'm not concerned with it unless I lose an animal then its a problem.