Which scope as a new host for the THLR reticle?

[Kurts86]

I agree with the pre-order, pre-pay being a strong stimulus for a company to pursue it.

Yes but many preorders of a hyped product never materialize and people are out their money or it takes years to deliver.

Having an established company definitely helps this actually get executed but only because it hangs their reputation on the line for actual execution.

 

[BjornF16]

Crowd source?

 

[Beetroot]

I think the main issue is there isn't really a scope on the market that fills all the other requirements for the "perfect" FFP hunting scope.

What scope in the 2ish-16ish mag range currently meets all the requirements in Forms formula?
If you want Night Force to put this reticle in the NXS that would be easy enough, but it you want the 2.5-10x42 to be made into FFP also, then that is a different story.

The only scopes on the market that tick all the boxes (or most of them) are the Mark 5hd 2-10 and the March 1.5-15, but they are both far from perfect and probably too expensive for many people to buy into.

 

[Dobermann]

What about SWFA in their 5-20 scope?

Doesn't meet specs. See post #1.

 

[Dobermann]

I think the main issue is there isn't really a scope on the market that fills all the other requirements for the "perfect" FFP hunting scope.

What scope in the 2ish-16ish mag range currently meets all the requirements in Forms formula?
If you want Night Force to put this reticle in the NXS that would be easy enough, but it you want the 2.5-10x42 to be made into FFP also, then that is a different story.

The only scopes on the market that tick all the boxes (or most of them) are the Mark 5hd 2-10 and the March 1.5-15, but they are both far from perfect and probably too expensive for many people to buy into.

Closest (especially when *proven* reliability is factored in) are the SWFA 3-9 (or possibly 3-15 with better glass), LRHS/LRTS 3-12, and Trijicon Tenmile covered above.

 

[BjornF16]

Doesn't meet specs. See post #1.

What specs doesn’t it meet?

OP referenced 34.4oz Minox as a tank (34mm tube).

The SWFA is only 31 oz

 

[DJL2]

I'd love to see March to bite on the THLR concept and update some of their existing offerings.

March has been making compact, light (comparably) SFP and FFP rifle scopes for a minute. For FFP specifically, the March F 3-24x52 is ~24 ounces and the March FX 1.5-15x42 is also ~ 24 ounces. In both cases, March is at least trying to address the hunting/field use market with sensible reticles.

That's the:
- FML-TR1H (for the F 3-24x52)
- FML-4 (for the FX 1.5-15x42)

They also do a dual SFP/FFP reticle for the 1.5-15x42. The two afore mentioned reticles feature open centers and tapered posts (versus the German posts on the THLR). March claims to shock test their optics (up to 1000 Gs), so there is certainly some care given to ruggedness. March catches some flak for their "good concept, but not quite right" reticle designs (I like their FML take on the traditional mildot FWIW), but they do iterate and develop new designs regularly.

Night Force is due for a reticle update, so that's another (somewhat chunkier) candidate.

 

[Dobermann]

I'd love to see March to bite on the THLR concept and update some of their existing offerings.

March has been making compact, light (comparably) SFP and FFP rifle scopes for a minute. For FFP specifically, the March F 3-24x52 is ~24 ounces and the March FX 1.5-15x42 is also ~ 24 ounces. In both cases, March is at least trying to address the hunting/field use market with sensible reticles.

That's the:
- FML-TR1H (for the F 3-24x52)
- FML-4 (for the FX 1.5-15x42)

They also do a dual SFP/FFP reticle for the 1.5-15x42. The two afore mentioned reticles feature open centers and tapered posts (versus the German posts on the THLR). March claims to shock test their optics (up to 1000 Gs), so there is certainly some care given to ruggedness. March catches some flak for their "good concept, but not quite right" reticle designs (I like their FML take on the traditional mildot FWIW), but they do iterate and develop new designs regularly.

Night Force is due for a reticle update, so that's another (somewhat chunkier) candidate.

Yeah, but those erector ratios though ... in an interview in the last couple of years, Jeff Huber covered why you start seeing some real issues once you get over a 5x ratio - he wasn't impressed with the idea of 8x at all. FWIW.

 

[DJL2]

Yeah, but those erector ratios though ... in an interview in the last couple of years, Jeff Huber covered why you start seeing some real issues once you get over a 5x ratio - he wasn't impressed with the idea of 8x at all. FWIW.

March eschews a certain amount of raw optical performance for those erector rations, but the real question is durability - and I don't have an answer for that one. I will say that IF any of the March scopes above passed the drop test, reticle selection might be the only real obstacle to field use. There just aren't many players around 24 ounces and I figured March merited consideration because they're at least making an effort in terms of size, weight, and reticle design.

 

[JCMCUBIC]

March has caught my attention with several things. The dual focal plane reticle is very interesting to me, as a hunter who spends time hunting in heavy cover/low light, then on the same day may hunt open ag fields with the possibility of 800 yard shots, and also likes to shoot distance year round. A good reticle for one may not be a good reticle for the others. Dual focal plane reticles could be really, really nice for my use. The ability to work well in all of the listed situations is what has me focused on the THLR in a FFP scope, which reduces my interest the dual focal plane.

Their focus on building a tough scope has caught my attention. From their webpage: "The walls of the 34mm tubes are 4mm thick. Our 34mm body tube is simply just to make the scope extra strong. With its 4mm thick walls and the overall design, March-X and March-FX models are among the toughest riflescopes in the world." Link: https://marchscopes.com/scopes/d15v42fdimlx/

The light weight per size and quality of glass (assumed, I haven't used one) are positives. They have a lot of positives.

The zoom ratio is the least attractive attribute to me. Everything is a tradeoff in optics. For me, that massive zoom ratio isn't needed and I'd gladly trade it off for improved user characteristics in a lower zoom ratio. I'd love to see them do a 3-12x42 with a THLR, but I'm doubtful they would stray from one of the things that sets them apart from most other optics companies.

 

[Dobermann]

March eschews a certain amount of raw optical performance for those erector rations, but the real question is durability - and I don't have an answer for that one. I will say that IF any of the March scopes above passed the drop test, reticle selection might be the only real obstacle to field use. There just aren't many players around 24 ounces and I figured March merited consideration because they're at least making an effort in terms of size, weight, and reticle design.

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall Jeff saying that erector ratios higher than 5x can introduce not only optical issues, but also durability ... I don't have time to re-listen to the podcast/s now, but it might have either been on Frank's or possibly one of the many other new ones that appeared in the 2020-2022 podcast years ...

 

[Beetroot]

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall Jeff saying that erector ratios higher than 5x can introduce not only optical issues, but also durability ... I don't have time to re-listen to the podcast/s now, but it might have either been on Frank's or possibly one of the many other new ones that appeared in the 2020-2022 podcast years ... T

Pretty sure it was on the Snipershide, Everyday Marksman podcast, Episode 244.

 

[THLR]

This is where I currently have best contact. But I don't push for a decision, it's a small company with limited capacity and they'll have to figure out market demand themselves. I'd estimate the magic number to be 100. I'm sure they'll be at Shot.


From a tech perspective, putting a reticle is an existing body is THE path of least resistance. It only costs a few thousands.
Building a new model is not realistic with most companies. It's simply not good business to tool/build a new production line with assorted spare parts (for a niche market)

 

[freddyG]

It sucks that the only companies interested in fitting this reticle into an existing scope, don’t make any reliable scopes.

 

[lak2004]

I bet if we setup a pre-order with deposits someone might change their tune. Sounds like a lot of leg work though as you'd want to get buy in across forums.

 

[freddyG]

I bet if we setup a pre-order with deposits someone might change their tune. Sounds like a lot of leg work though as you'd want to get buy in across forums.

When I inquired, NF wasn’t interested because they had too much work with the gov contracts. Additionally, they aren’t willing to bring back discontinued scopes like the f1 nxs(which would be the perfect donor for this project).

Swfa can’t even keep existing scopes in stock, so that’s a dead end.

I’m not interested in other scope manufacturers, simply because I’m not going back to chasing zero/scopes that puke.

 

[Dobermann]

It sucks that the only companies interested in fitting this reticle into an existing scope, don’t make any reliable scopes.

Which companies are you referring to? As far as I understand it, only one company has used this reticle. No others have said they would use it ... yet.

Or did I miss something?

 

[freddyG]

I’m pretty sure I read here that Maven might be interested, and there is the post above from Thomas himself, about Kahles.

 

[Dobermann]

I’m pretty sure I read here that Maven might be interested, and there is the post above from Thomas himself, about Kahles.

I thought Thomas's post simply said he has a relationship with Khales, not that they might adopt the THLR reticle.

If you can find the Maven post, I'd love to see it - if the RS1.2 passes the drop test, that would likely be the best production option as a host for the THLR reticle for hunting.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Minox ZP5 3-15 with this reticle would be on my new Sako 90 quest if they made it.