Who is Gunwerk’s target customer

[waspocrew]

2. If a slogan is contrary to the very sanctity of hunting, you’re damn right I am.

I think that's a bit of a stretch there. Go take a look at most rifle manufacture's websites, while not a slogan, you'll see plenty of models like the Savage "long range hunter", Remington "Long Range", Bergara "LRP or Long Range Precision"... are you up in arms about that?

Again, the theme that pervades these GW threads is that GW owners are rich dumb schmucks with no common sense who have absolutely no business being in the field hunting.

 

[txtransplant]

You want an easy button system that makes you the primary source of error.

I’m already the primary source of error, so I guess I’m halfway there without the $10k gun

X-Bolt with a good scope is under $2k, and I’ll likely be the weakest link in that setup for the rest of my life.

 

[waspocrew]

1. Yes, that’s exactly how interpret it and that is clearly their intention. If you’ve been around a while, and watched GW’s shows and marketing along the way, this intent is clear as day. Take the gun out of the box and go hunt at 1000 yards. The owner makes no bones about it. He has said it himself, he sells a shortcut.

I've seen plenty of their shows, but don't care enough to go looking - are you saying they have this on film? They have some pretty long range kill shots, but who doesn't these days? That's what gets views, right? Which, for the record, I don't care for.

From their earlier episodes, I recall them showing how to bed your rifle, how to take steep shots, controlling recoil, loading bipods for shots, how to map cold bore shots, testing temp stable powders, etc - all things that would help a shooter. I can't recall an episode where they say "just take it out and hunt to 1000".

 

[z987k]

I agree.

I just thought there would be some kind of number involved somewhere.

Maybe like “For $12k you should be able to hit (whatever size target) at (whatever distance).

The accuracy claims I’ve seen from factory rifles with factory ammo have generally been for 3 shots at 100 yards.
Suggesting they are capable of MOA accuracy.

I was just wondering if Gunwerks had something similar, but at a greater level.

If the 12k gun came with a couple weeks worth of long range hunting classes, it'd be a different story. And likely worth it for a lot of people. But just the gun....

 

[apieceofwork]

You really nailed it with this part of the thought experiment. A good plumber charges $150/hr these days. And $1500/hour is a starting point for better attorneys in certain cities. For a successful entrepreneur, the sky's the limit on what an hour of your time is worth.

There's an inflection point for successful business owners and some high-end service providers (consultants, attorneys, medical, etc), and some high-end skilled labor, where the normal things we do growing up, like mowing your own lawn, changing your own oil, etc, actually start costing you money to do yourself. It's one thing if it's an identity or values thing about doing it yourself, and are willing to eat the cost in what your time is worth, but it's another thing entirely if it's in an area that you just don't want to put the amount of time into in order to do it competently. Like load development. Or building your own house. At some point, it's not just an expense to do it yourself, but straight-up financially stupid.

That inflection point is different for each person, based on what their hours are worth to them financially, and what the trade-offs are.

Sort of.

People will ultimately find the time to do the things they actually want to do.

This includes ultra successful people.

“I don’t have time” is rarely the actual reason. They’d simply rather do something else with their free time.

This has been the case with every wealthy person I’ve ever known.

There are people who genuinely have no interest in the details and want an out of the box solution.

 

[davsco]

There are people who genuinely have no interest in the details and want an out of the box solution.

absolutely nothing wrong with this.

the key is with shooting (and related stuff, such as dirt bikes) is that you need to know how to use them. having a dialed-in and uber-accurate rifle, or a customized dirt bike, doesn't make you a good shooter or rider/racer. hopefully, and i'm sure most do, they know this and put in the practice necessary.

 

[Rock’N Tacos]

We keep talking about wealthy individuals in this thread - I am curious what everybody is defining as wealthy? I know my personal situation and am “comfortable” and could pay $12k for a gun with no material impact to my families situation. Also a recent empty nester with one child’s college paid for and one more to go. I would never consider myself “wealthy”.

I have a buddy making substantially less than I do that drives a new $100k F250 Platinum and his wife drives an expedition - I think its a platinum as well. My wife and I drive Toyotas. I probably make 4 times more than he does. He also is making monthly payments on a boat that he gets to use 4 months out of the year in idaho. His boat payment alone would easily cover a new gunwerks rifle ever year. Granted, my home is double his square footage and worth 5x more - more affluent neighborhood, larger lot, much newer etc. and my payment is significantly higher than his, but is also an appreciating asset.

My point is my buddy who makes $150k a year could easily afford a gunwerks rifle if his priorities were different.

 

[BCDJR]

We keep talking about wealthy individuals in this thread - I am curious what everybody is defining as wealthy? I know my personal situation and am “comfortable” and could pay $12k for a gun with no material impact to my families situation. Also a recent empty nester with one child’s college paid for and one more to go. I would never consider myself “wealthy”.

I have a buddy making substantially less than I do that drives a new $100k F250 Platinum and his wife drives an expedition - I think its a platinum as well. My wife and I drive Toyotas. I probably make 4 times more than he does. He also is making monthly payments on a boat that he gets to use 4 months out of the year in idaho. His boat payment alone would easily cover a new gunwerks rifle ever year. Granted, my home is double his square footage and worth 5x more - more affluent neighborhood, larger lot, much newer etc. and my payment is significantly higher than his, but is also an appreciating asset.

My point is my buddy who makes $150k a year could easily afford a gunwerks rifle if his priorities were different.

Exactly! As a long time hunter who has had a lot of firearms I always wanted a product that would minimize my mistakes. That could be a shotgun, pistol or a rifle. I remember back when it was a big deal to hope a rifle could shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yards and a lot of them shot 1.5 inches at 100. Back then before smart phones and ballistic apps you had to get data from the ammo companies and print out information for wind and bullet drop and hope it was correct. Yes Gunwerks can offer you a system but folks seem to be hung up on this idea. Right now you can go to Gunwerks site and buy a base rifle from inventory. There are several companies who support this site also have ready to ship rifles. Alltera arms a high quality company similar to GW has basic rifles in stock. So starting with the rifle alone you can compare quality and components. Then if you choose GW or any of the other companies will add on a scope, bases and rings for you. You have the option then to have the gun delivered . Get your self a chronograph go to the range. Download your favorite ballistic app and make a profile. Takes less than one hour. Hopefully you have a range that allows you validate yardage out to 800. Now if you don’t want to do that work then GW will shoot the gun for you and burn a turret with both yards and moa. Or you can just use moa. The rifle and load will come from their ammunition. I have two rifles from them and my testing shows very little deviation from round to round with MV. I have of course seen one rifle “ speed up” a little after 180 rounds so I verify. If you like the package idea then Allterra arms offers the same package. GW tells the customer you need to verify the gun. Both of the guns I purchased were not zeroed to my eye so I made easy adjustments. I have verified both guns at various ranges out to 1200 yards. No I don’t plan to shoot anything at those ranges but it’s just fun and helps me understand wind and ballistics more. My expectations are very high for performance. My Gunwerks guns shoot well under .5 moa and if I could find another brand that shot less than .25 moa in my calibers I might try it! So today I see Bass Pro has a Savage 6.5 CM with a bore sighted scope for sale at $580. So I guess that’s somewhat of a partial system? Think someone might just stroll in there buy the gun along with a box of ammo and go hunt later today? Probably so….However I don’t know personally a single GW customer who does that.

 

[Weldor]

Interesting read for sure. Never really thought about a targeted market for GW anymore than Blaser. Always just thought they were quality firearms? Of course did not think of purchasing one either.

 

[Quandary]

$20 sling -
Works great!

I have the sling as well. Best sling I've ever had!

The BR4 rangefind and their ballistic software is also great.

 

[Quandary]

I laugh at the people who said you can buy a custom rifle for 50% less than Gunwerks. I had a few built by a gentleman who is considered “Hall of fame “ by the bench rest community. Great work and great performance out of the guns. It look over a year and I supplied the scopes and rings. I now have a couple of GW rifles and the cost ( with inflation factored in for last 10 years ) is about the same. There are a couple of companies who will charge you to ship your rifle to them and they will develop several custom loads for your review. They then will produce the ammo for you as needed. AZ ammo does this and I have used them in the past. Of course there is a wait time for the service but they give you a 20 page report on the quality of the custom build and point out any issues. They check things like lock time…etc. My point is you can get all the turnkey issues done by highly trained professionals who make a living doing this type of work. The costs and more importantly the time adds up.

I roll my own. Here is a typical cost;

BAT Vampire action - $1,800
CRB barrel chambered, fluted, cerakoted, threaded - $1,200
Manners PH stock - $1,100
TriggerTech Special - $250
Hawkins Hunter bottom metal - $250
Hawkins magazines (2) - $160
Bedding action - $250
Time to pick, source, order, assemble - what is your time worth to you?

Total $5,010 (Note this does not include the cost of the tools, Go and NoGo gauges etc that you need)

Point being when you look at the raw cost of building a rifle in the class (maybe better) of a Gunwerks on your own, their pricing really doesn't seem outrageous.

 

[Quandary]

This is the correct answer. If you want a $12k rifle to shoot at animals at reasonable distances, I don't think anyone would care. Do what you want with your money.
But the notion that you can buy a turn key rifle and go shoot animals at quite long range is incorrect. You cannot buy the skill it takes to do that. The rifle could be 100k and it wouldn't enable that.

Perhaps I missed it but I don't ever recall the Gunwerks guy saying buy our rifles and you can go out and shoot at animals at 1,000 yards. I do recall him saying our rifles are CAPABLE of shooting animals at 1,000 yards. And if you are not capable we can train you to be able to do it.

It's also a mighty big leap to presume knowledge and the intent of someone you don't know simply because they bought a product you don't like.

 

[RockAndSage]

I am curious what everybody is defining as wealthy?

In a way this is like asking what constitutes "promiscuity", only to realize it's pretty much anyone who's had more play than you...

 

[Rock’N Tacos]

In a way this is like asking what constitutes "promiscuity", only to realize it's pretty much anyone who's had more play than you...

I guess that’s my point…lol. In my mind someone who is wealthy has a net worth over $5m and doesn’t have to work to maintain a decent lifestyle. I don’t think you have to be my definition of wealthy to play in the gunwerks space

 

[bmart2622]

This is crazy!!!! So a person that works a lot and has limited time yet still enjoys hunting is the bad guy for buying a rifle from GunWerks!!! If a person doesn't have the time to research components for a build, research and develop a load, shoot enough to be proficient and then still have the time to hit the field and hunt is now somehow wrong for prioritizing where they save/spend their time and money!!! If a person has the means but not the time, to buy a turn key packaged with a rifle thats ready to go and a load developed for that rifle and then uses the time they saved by buying that turnkey package to use what remaining time they have to shoot and practice is somehow wrong or unethical?!?!? Why are people just assuming that GW customers are not practicing and spraying and praying lead when they hit the field?? The systems are good to 1000yds out of the box and anyone who infers or interprets it as anything else is intentionally taking it out of context. Just to be clear, I dont own a GW, and never would because I personally enjoy the research, building and load development by doing it myself but I also dont look down my nose on anyone that does like several people on this forum do.

 

[BCDJR]

This is crazy!!!! So a person that works a lot and has limited time yet still enjoys hunting is the bad guy for buying a rifle from GunWerks!!! If a person doesn't have the time to research components for a build, research and develop a load, shoot enough to be proficient and then still have the time to hit the field and hunt is now somehow wrong for prioritizing where they save/spend their time and money!!! If a person has the means but not the time, to buy a turn key packaged with a rifle thats ready to go and a load developed for that rifle and then uses the time they saved by buying that turnkey package to use what remaining time they have to shoot and practice is somehow wrong or unethical?!?!? Why are people just assuming that GW customers are not practicing and spraying and praying lead when they hit the field?? The systems are good to 1000yds out of the box and anyone who infers or interprets it as anything else is intentionally taking it out of context. Just to be clear, I dont own a GW, and never would because I personally enjoy the research, building and load development by doing it myself but I also dont look down my nose on anyone that does like several people on this forum do.

I know that part of the problem is assumptions. I notice on many sites folks use the terms ….” the average hunter”…or “ most hunters”….or the “ average joe”. There are over 14 million hunters in the USA. So what sample size would justify using the term “ average “? Using 10% of the group would be 1.4 million hunters. I’ve been in dozens of hunting camps with other hunters and I do not feel qualified to speak on their ability or practices and certainly not a large enough sample size. Even going to a public shooting range you never know why everyone is there and if to just shoot or prepare for hunting . I suppose if you were a guide or outfitter that had experience with hundreds of hunters you could comment on your personal observations within that group who hired you. I don’t know how many Gunwerks rifles have been sold but let’s say a sample size survey would need to be a minimum of 100 owners to develop an average. So unless you personally know 100 owners who do not shoot or practice then your comments are unfounded. So like many things it is internet garbage

 

[TheWhitetailNut]

For some folks they love the hunting, not the minutia tinkering. I went to buy a Gunwerks Magnus a couple months ago in .450. In the end the bolt was sticky and it was over $10k with a cheap Leupold scope. I couldn't do it.

I assembled a custom .45 Raptor over the next 6 weeks and developed custom ammo using the same 327gr. Bullet as GW uses 250 fps faster. In the end the $4k I "saved" was really a loss as I charge $619/hr. in my profession. I do believe I ended up with a better gun. A couple of years ago I would have bought the GW as I would not have had the time.

 

[TheWhitetailNut]

So........ Who is gunwerks target customer?

This falls under the "things that never happened for $1000 Alex". GW can't ship a rifle to hunting camp, we have these silly FFL transfers..

 

[Kimber7man]

Guess one thing left to say is, many posters assume that a Gunwerks buyer is someone with lots of money but little time who wants to “buy” their way to shooting long range.

Really looking hard at the assumptions - who is to say the buyer hasn’t spent time earlier in their life hunting and shooting, and knows how to hunt and shoot, but now is pressed for time and just wants to get out and hunt?

 

[RockAndSage]

who is to say the buyer hasn’t spent time earlier in their life hunting and shooting, and knows how to hunt and shoot, but now is pressed for time and just wants to get out and hunt?

Similarly, some may also expect to be taking classes after they have a properly built gun.