WHY is a Tikka trigger more reliable than an R700 trigger?

[Igloo]

So, I can appreciate (from Form's testing and just the anecdotal evidence) that the T3 and T3x trigger is more reliable in harsh conditions than the Remington 700 trigger.

Keeping this limited to the X-mark pro and similar, or the pinnace, the Geissele Super 700 (to eliminate complications like the Walker's free floating connector), WHY is that?

Is it more of a sealed system and permits less moisture and crud in? More open and thus more of that crud falls out? Looser critical tolerances in general? All of the above?

And bonus Q, is the Tikka action more reliable than a Remington 700 overall?

 

[Brontosaurus]

@Formidilosus

 

[t_carlson]

Because Form said so.

And if anyone has *actually* tested it out, its him.

 

[AkMtnRunner]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/canadian-rangers-test-new-top-tier-weapon-1.3143122

 

[Johnny Tyndall]

It's beyond my comprehension, but take a look at this detailed analysis of the problem with the 700 trigger.

 

[Igloo]

Because Form said so.

And if anyone has *actually* tested it out, its him.

If God said so I'd still want to know WHY lol.

 

[Swampcruiser]

Because nothing holds a candle to Tikka round these parts

 

[Igloo]

It's beyond my comprehension, but take a look at this detailed analysis of the problem with the 700 trigger.

Yessir Johnny, I know whats wrong with the Walker trigger, and its vulnerabilities.
But I really wonder what makes one enclosed trigger so much more reliable than another!

 

[ElPollo]

Tikkas are made by magical Finno-Ugrian forest elves who live in large hollow trees. But unlike other types of elves, they gave up their historical trade of cookie making to devote their immortal lives to the construction of moose smashers. Tikkas are widely known as safe firearms because the firing mechanism includes a small woodsprite inside that ensures the gun will only fire when pointed in a safe direction and only after the shooter tickles the woodsprite’s genital appendage (aka the trigger). The action is also manufactured with magical wards that effectively create a force field that allows the ingress of unfired ammunition and the egress of bullets, but does not allow for the ingress of dirt, vegetation, water, ice, blood, moose poop, or cleaning rods and other cleaning supplies. Everyone knows that if you can keep the moose poop out, there’s really no reason to clean it anyway. These wards also impart additional velocity and expansion for projectiles, but only if the projectiles weigh exactly 77 grains and have green tips (aka elf hats). The elf hats and woodsprite ejaculate are the secret magical ingredient that produce the rifle’s legendary accuracy for long shot strings of 10-30 rounds and long barrel life. However 3-5 rounds just doesn’t do much for the woodsprite, hence reduced accuracy on smaller shot strings. Finally, the stocks are made from the elves’ used and dirty stockings and woolen underpants molded with pitch from the magical tree which provides rigidity and insulation to prevent POI shift due to barrel heat from long shot strings.

 

[t_carlson]

If God said so I'd still want to know WHY lol.

You must have a LOT of questions then....its called "faith" for a reason

 

[Johnny Tyndall]

Yessir Johnny, I know whats wrong with the Walker trigger, and its vulnerabilities.
But I really wonder what makes one enclosed trigger so much more reliable than another!

Gotcha. Wish I could help. I didn't even get that far. Read about a quarter of that description and figured you know, I'm just gonna take their word for it.

 

[ElPollo]

So, I can appreciate (from Form's testing and just the anecdotal evidence) that the T3 and T3x trigger is more reliable in harsh conditions than the Remington 700 trigger.

Keeping this limited to the X-mark pro and similar, or the pinnace, the Geissele Super 700 (to eliminate complications like the Walker's free floating connector), WHY is that?

Is it more of a sealed system and permits less moisture and crud in? More open and thus more of that crud falls out? Looser critical tolerances in general? All of the above?

And bonus Q, is the Tikka action more reliable than a Remington 700 overall?

There are several reasons for the reliability. First the safety blocks the trigger, bolt handle and firing pin which makes system drop safe which an R700 isn’t. Form posted a discussion about sear engagement in the R700 trigger and why that made it less safe. I don’t have that link but you can search his posts.

Second the design of the action results in less options for the ingress of crap, water, and ice to cause reliability issues inside the trigger and action. The following post included a comparison of the Tikka with the Howa 1500 (not an R700) including pictures for the potential for crap getting into the action.

Post in thread 'Howa Mini or Tikka .223?'
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/howa-mini-or-tikka-223.307242/post-3058122

Finally and probably least important is that the design of the bolt races allows a bit of slop which means the bolt is less likely to bind if it does get crap in there.

Others may chime in additional reasons, but that’s a big chunk of it.

 

[Lawnboi]

Does the tikka safety truly block the firing pin? I know it locks the bolt but I can’t tell if it blocks the pin when in place. You would think that would be a feature tikka would advertise.

 

[Igloo]

Does the tikka safety truly block the firing pin? I know it locks the bolt but I can’t tell if it blocks the pin when in place. You would think that would be a feature tikka would advertise.

Yes. When the safety is on a cylindrical stud moves up through a hole in the receiver and blocks the firing pin

 

[Igloo]

There are several reasons for the reliability. First the safety blocks the trigger, bolt handle and firing pin which makes system drop safe which an R700 isn’t. Form posted a discussion about sear engagement in the R700 trigger and why that made it less safe. I don’t have that link but you can search his posts.

Second the design of the action results in less options for the ingress of crap, water, and ice to cause reliability issues inside the trigger and action. The following post included a comparison of the Tikka with the Howa 1500 (not an R700) including pictures for the potential for crap getting into the action.

Post in thread 'Howa Mini or Tikka .223?'
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/howa-mini-or-tikka-223.307242/post-3058122

Finally and probably least important is that the design of the bolt races allows a bit of slop which means the bolt is less likely to bind if it does get crap in there.

Others may chime in additional reasons, but that’s a big chunk of it.

Thank you!!
So end of the day, less stuff gets in there.
Wondering if, should things get in there anyway, its a looser/less confined area and they leave it more easily too

 

[TaperPin]

The latest round of poo pooing the Remington triggers that made me laugh were the examples of prs shooters having problems during competitions - nobody is even using factory triggers in competition rifles, and most aren’t using Remington actions. Poorly adjusted and maintained triggers are dangerous in any rifle.

 

[PathFinder]

That's quite the demonstration of the significance of the design flaws. Multiple custom actions and triggers don't even fix it...

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[Leatherneck]

Does the tikka safety truly block the firing pin? I know it locks the bolt but I can’t tell if it blocks the pin when in place. You would think that would be a feature tikka would advertise.

Wow! Did not know that!!!! They really do need to advertise this. Like Tikkas even better now!

 

[t_carlson]

What I always wondered, is how much of this stuff failed during actual use instead of during testing

Ideally, nothing fails during actual use because you've tested it thoroughly and weeded out the crap.

But, the reason so little gear passes strenuous testing is because the vast majority of hunters will never use it hard enough to fail.

So, take your pick of which gear category you are ok with.

 

[grfox92]

.... and most aren’t using Remington actions. Poorly adjusted and maintained triggers are dangerous in any rifle.

Pretty sure upwards of 90% of competitive shooters are using some type of R700 action. I am unaware of any custom actions that arent based off of an R700.

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