Why should I get a .45?

[MuleyFever]

I have been considering another muzzleloader dedicated for deer with a scope. I see a lot of guys going with .45s. What advantages or disadvantages does a .45 have?

If you were going to go with a .45 and wanted to push you max range, what would you buy and why? What powder and bullets would you be using?

 

[Str8shtr]

custom smokeless muzzloader like ASG or others offer in .45 cal. No sabots. Use a "high" bc bullet like a parker or the bullets ASG offers with bh209. 300gr bullet @ 2400fps and more accurate than a lot of rifles. You can also build your own with a prefit rem-age setup. These guns are next level in the muzzle-loader world.

 

[Rich M]

Pretty much what he said.

 

[Str8shtr]

With a 50 cal you're probably going to use a sabot and shoot a .45 cal bullet anyway. The 50cal won't build as much pressure with BH209 and you'll get more velocity with the .45 cal gun. If you don't use a sabot in a 50cal, you'll have less velocity and a lower BC bullet. So more velocity and a better BC with 45 cal.

 

[MuleyFever]

custom smokeless muzzloader like ASG or others offer in .45 cal. No sabots. Use a "high" bc bullet like a parker or the bullets ASG offers with bh209. 300gr bullet @ 2400fps and more accurate than a lot of rifles. You can also build your own with a prefit rem-age setup. These guns are next level in the muzzle-loader world.

This has to be something off the shelf I can have tested and ready to go by Sept. Looking to use BH209.

 

[Str8shtr]

Not real sure on factory offerings but if you can get something with a fast enough twist to shoot the "high" bc bullets ( I think 1-22") it'll help extend your range. The difference in BC from a standard muzzleloader bullet makes a huge difference in energy downrange.

 

[ENCORE]

Can't beat a custom. If you're looking for something quick, then you could consider the Paramount and 1:22 twist if you want to burn a lot of propellant, or a Knight Mountaineer with a 1:20 twist, where max BH charges are 120grs volume/84grs weight.
The Paramount normally has an over size bore and you'd end up knurling up bullets and size. The Knight would shoot anything but you would have to size them. The Arrowhead XLD bullets are excellent .400bc bullets.

 

[MuleyFever]

Whats the advantage of a 45 cal over a 50 shooting 45s in a sabot? Assuming they are capable of shooting the same charge weight. Is the 45 shooting full bores just usually more accurate?

 

[Stalker69]

I guess I am still old school, but I think black powder is full bore sized patched balls or bullets. No scope, side lock percussion, or flint lock. I have and have used it, a knight rifle, but it just don’t “ feel “ right, to call it a black powder rifle. It’s amazing how times are changing, and people always prefer the easiest rout.

 

[Str8shtr]

Whats the advantage of a 45 cal over a 50 shooting 45s in a sabot? Assuming they are capable of shooting the same charge weight. Is the 45 shooting full bores just usually more accurate?

You'll get more velocity in a 45 cal

 

[MuleyFever]

You'll get more velocity in a 45 cal

Even with the same weight bullet? Due to higher pressure?

 

[ENCORE]

Whats the advantage of a 45 cal over a 50 shooting 45s in a sabot? Assuming they are capable of shooting the same charge weight. Is the 45 shooting full bores just usually more accurate?

For accuracy between the 50 and 45cal rifles................
The 45 is hands down more accurate, which can easily be verified by all the major NMLRA events for modern inline rifles. IIRC the last time a 50cal won at a modern inline event was in 2014 and the rifle was a BP Xpress. It took overall in a match called In-line Hunter. Every match or major event held since, has been won by 45cal rifles.

I guess I am still old school, but I think black powder is full bore sized patched balls or bullets. No scope, side lock percussion, or flint lock. I have and have used it, a knight rifle, but it just don’t “ feel “ right, to call it a black powder rifle. It’s amazing how times are changing, and people always prefer the easiest rout.

You're just set in your ways and that's ok too. Other than the "feel", what's different loading your side lock percussion or the Knight? They both load from the muzzle and both use an ignition source. Just set in your ways
Ya just have to imagine what it would be like having to use a rotary phone to communicate, rather than a "smart phone" or a computer like we are doing now. LOL

I fully support any and all firearms for hunting and shooting. If I can encourage and help a youngster to the shooting sports, it doesn't matter rather its a side lock or modern custom 1,000yd muzzleloader.

 

[MuleyFever]

It seems like the CVA Paramount may be the best off the shelf option but boy are they heavy.

 

[Str8shtr]

Even with the same weight bullet? Due to higher pressure?

Yes, If there was a hotter black powder you may be able to get more velocity in a 50 but BH209 will give you more velocity in a 45 cal as long as the gun can handle the higher powder charges.

 

[MuleyFever]

I am really leaning to a Knight UL. I handled a Paramount at Sportsman's and they are so dang heavy. I just dont know if I can get over the idea of carrying that thing around the mountain.

The CVA will give more range but I think the Knight is still a 400yard killer and that is really as far as I think I would want to go anyway.

Can someone detail the Knight breach plug conversion I have heard about?

 

[wind gypsy]

I'm new to the ML world but I bought a UL .45 and sold it in the classifieds before shooting it in lieu of going the arrowhead encore route. The UL was a really nice feeling rifle, i liked the stock and trigger and it felt great shouldering.

In the end, reading about fussing with breech plug and violent recoil paired with the fact I can shoot smokeless in my home state led me to change directions to the arrowhead encore route. Thus far the encore seems simple as can be to shoot very tight. With the standard (heavy) barrel contour, smokeless (smaller powder charges = less recoil), and the brake on, it still has plenty of recoil. I think i would have dreaded shooting stout loads in the UL and doubt I could have shot it as accurately. The other nice thing about smokeless capability is people shoot with smokeless to foul a bore even if hunting with BH209 to mitigate POI shifts from cold/clean bore to second shot.

In regards to the knight breach plug, you can shim them for cheap but i never fully wrapped my head around the process. Below is a more detailed look at aftermarket options. This video also nudged me to just hit the arrowhead easy button

 

[MuleyFever]

I have been hunting with a .50 Knight UL for about 6 years and love it. I have been shooting 120gnV of BH209 with a 300gn Thor with good results. I have not done any mods to the breach plug. I just want more range and possibly better accuracy so I am looking at the .45s.

 

[GMB54-120]

Well if you already have a Ulite 50 why not just buy the Mountaineer 45 1-20 barrel? All the parts from your 50 UL swap over in minutes. Its super simple. I highly recommend the Lehigh breech plug ($16.50) or the least expensive Bestill plug. You could buy the barrel and have it sent to Bestill if you want him to install the plug. Total would be around $500 i think. Plug is about $80 DIY or about $150 if he installs it. It will be custom fit to that barrel.

It wont be as light as the 45 1-20 UL but it wont be as heavy as the Mountaineer either. You will gain about 3" of barrel. A max load of BH209 and a 300gr bullet is right around 2100fps from a 27" Mountaineer 45.

Mountaineer Muzzleloader .45 Cal 1:20 Fast Twist Barrel Kit - Knight Rifles

The Mountaineer Muzzleloader .45 Cal 1:20 Fast Twist Barrel Kit is a great choice when you need a new barrel for your black-powder rifle.

www.muzzleloaders.com

 

[MuleyFever]

That may be the ticket.

 

[GMB54-120]

I bought that very same barrel kit and added the Lehigh plug. My lands were somewhere around .4507-.4508 as a .451 bullet would load with about the right amount of pressure. I ran all my bullets i wanted to use through a Lee .451 die 3 times. All of them would load ok.

I took all my DISC parts and swapped them over with the exception of a bare primer bolt and the Lehigh plug. Even my primers got a nice light crush so no shimming was needed. Like i said its VERY simple to swap the parts over. If using a FPJ bolt you will need to remove about .030-.040 from the face of the Lehigh ADAPTER on the plug side of the adapter. The face of my adapter hits the nut on the breech plug but just barely. Removing a tiny bit of metal from the adapter wont hurt a thing. Its made for the DISC Elite/Extreme/Originals but will fit a Mountaineer or Ulite with only a little work.

Using the bare primer bolt it was just plug and play.