Winchester copper impact xp on elk?

[brsnow]

Has anyone used it? Rapid expansion all copper sounds ideal from .308 or 30-06 Any experiences with it? Thank you

 

[brsnow]

Ttt

 

[Laelkhunter]

What I saw was that it appears to be designed for deer. If so, I think I would want something built a little heavier for Elk. Rapid expansion on deer might not give adequate penetration on Elk, resulting in long hours of following a faint bloodtrail over the Mountains. Not my idea of fun nor fair to the animal possibly left to suffer if you can't recover him (or her).

 

[Laelkhunter]

Has anyone used it? Rapid expansion all copper sounds ideal from .308 or 30-06 Any experiences with it? Thank you

Sorry, failed to quote your question in my response above.

 

[Carbonaero]

As an alternate to this copper bullet, I have used Barnes ttsx for a couple decades on elk. They have never failed and typically recover them from under the backside hide. I also use Thor bullets (manufactured by Barnes; utilize similar pedaling technology) in my muzzle loader and those work flawlessly too.

Wait, an exception that proves the rule. I did have a 150 ttsx fragment upon impact at close range. The bullet hit the bull's spine squarely from the top and behind at 30 yards. 2950 muzzle velocity. It killed the elk but did come apart. Usually these bullets loose no weight (expect for the 3 grain plastic ballistic tip).

 

[Laelkhunter]

I agree with Carbonaero, Barnes TTSX are what I use. Rule of thumb is 10% lighter bullet in the mono bullet will give you same performance as the heavier bullet weight in cup and core. In the .308 or 30/06, the 168 TTSX would be optimum. I use the 168 TTSX in my 30/06, and the 225 TTSX in my .340 Weatherby.

 

[bluetick78]

The 30-06 Sucks Because, Well, It’s OLD And Slow!

Let’s face it, no one drives a Model T anymore, and that thing didn’t hit the streets until two years AFTER the 30-06 had been sending bullets limping down range. The 30-06 is literally a throwback to the horse and buggy days. The Model T could rip down the dusty trails of early America at a top speed of perhaps 45 mph. The 30-06 was similarly lethargic, pushing its original 150-grain bullet a mere 2,700 fps. That’s a plodding 1,841 mph. Ho hum. Yes, it’s true that today’s powders can nudge 150-grain bullets to 3,000 fps, but the 300 RUM can smoke them to 3,550 fps!

Are you being serious, with the all caps and stuff? The question wasn't "give me your opinion on the 30-06", it was asking for advice on bullet performance out of a couple of similar cartridges. If you don't have experience with these projectiles, move on.

 

[brsnow]

I agree with Carbonaero, Barnes TTSX are what I use. Rule of thumb is 10% lighter bullet in the mono bullet will give you same performance as the heavier bullet weight in cup and core. In the .308 or 30/06, the 168 TTSX would be optimum. I use the 168 TTSX in my 30/06, and the 225 TTSX in my .340 Weatherby.

yes, I use LRX in a 6.5 and will be using the 168 ttsx in the .308, but having a rapid expansion mini bullet seems to check all boxes If they work.

 

[Laelkhunter]

The 30-06 Sucks Because, Well, It’s OLD And Slow!

Let’s face it, no one drives a Model T anymore, and that thing didn’t hit the streets until two years AFTER the 30-06 had been sending bullets limping down range. The 30-06 is literally a throwback to the horse and buggy days. The Model T could rip down the dusty trails of early America at a top speed of perhaps 45 mph. The 30-06 was similarly lethargic, pushing its original 150-grain bullet a mere 2,700 fps. That’s a plodding 1,841 mph. Ho hum. Yes, it’s true that today’s powders can nudge 150-grain bullets to 3,000 fps, but the 300 RUM can smoke them to 3,550 fps!

Very true, but don't tell the millions of Elk that dropped being shot with the .308 or 30/06 that they were killed by an inferior cartridge. AND the poor underinformed Elk that bit the dust after being shot with a .243, .270, or 7mm-08 (which my Guide's sons use on Elk every year), those poor Elk might feel humiliated. I don't believe the Elk have gotten any tougher over the decades, maybe harder to hunt, but still anatomically the same. But as you say, faster is better. A longer range cartridge like the 300 RUM will be good to stretch your range past 800 yards, but an Elk shot at 200 yards with the 30/06 will show the same results as an Elk shot with the 300 RUM at 800 (with the same projectile). OP didn't state he would be shooting at extended range. Your response really doesn't help the OP original question where he asks if you have used "it" (Winchester Copper Impact). IF he would have asked what would be best out of a .308 or 30/06 your response would have helped him a lot more. He didn't. I'm sure he appreciates your reply, however.

edited to add: I was typing while bluetick78 was posting his reply, sorry for the redundancy....

 

[Laelkhunter]

yes, I use LRX in a 6.5 and will be using the 168 ttsx in the .308, but having a rapid expansion mini bullet seems to check all boxes If they work.

Lots of Elk have fallen to the old style cup and core, Remington Core-lokt comes to mind. The Winchester Copper Impact should very well exceed the older bullets performance. I would shoot some out of the rifle, and if the accuracy is acceptable, give them a try. Could be best of both worlds if it holds together long enough to get into the vitals before it dumps all of their energy into the Elk. Let us know how they shoot out of your rifle compared to the TTSX.

 

[brsnow]

Lots of Elk have fallen to the old style cup and core, Remington Core-lokt comes to mind. The Winchester Copper Impact should very well exceed the older bullets performance. I would shoot some out of the rifle, and if the accuracy is acceptable, give them a try. Could be best of both worlds if it holds together long enough to get into the vitals before it dumps all of their energy into the Elk. Let us know how they shoot out of your rifle compared to the TTSX.

thank you, will pick up a box and see how they shoot. Going to see minimum velocity as well for them to expand. The 168 ttsx are actually LRX and minimum is 1600.

 

[brsnow]

Seems they have added 6.5 CM and .270
WSM. Looking forward to checking them out.

 

[sneaky]

Rapid expansion sounds like a glorified varmint bullet marketed towards light skinned game like deer. I'd stick with the LRX or try a Hammer Hunter that's designed to penetrate 2-4 inches before fragmenting. A rapidly expanding bullet hitting a rib on an elk is going to splash like a V Max bullet does on a coyotes shoulder.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[OXN939]

thank you, will pick up a box and see how they shoot. Going to see minimum velocity as well for them to expand. The 168 ttsx are actually LRX and minimum is 1600.

A lot of these companies publish optimistic minimum expansion velocities, just like they publish optimistic BC numbers. Attached is a picture of .30 caliber copper monolithic expansion at different velocities. Copper has more consistent terminal ballistics than lead, but you've gotta have speed. I would highly recommend against shooting from a distance that will put impact velocity under 2100 FPS.

 

[brsnow]

A lot of these companies publish optimistic minimum expansion velocities, just like they publish optimistic BC numbers. Attached is a picture of .30 caliber copper monolithic expansion at different velocities. Copper has more consistent terminal ballistics than lead, but you've gotta have speed. I would highly recommend against shooting from a distance that will put impact velocity under 2100 FPS.

View attachment 160618

I have killed plenty with Barnes and GMX, no issues. I do believe Barnes minimums, they are different for each model/caliber. I agree though, no reason to push limits.

 

[OXN939]

I have killed plenty with Barnes and GMX, no issues. I do believe Barnes minimums, they are different for each model/caliber. I agree though, no reason to push limits.

Cool. TTSX would be where I'd start for rapid expansion in a copper mono, although truly, I notice much less of a difference between brands than I do with lead cup-and-core bullets. I'll be doing some gallon jug testing this week of TSXs/GMXs/TTSXs and will post results.

 

[brsnow]

Cool. TTSX would be where I'd start for rapid expansion in a copper mono, although truly, I notice much less of a difference between brands than I do with lead cup-and-core bullets. I'll be doing some gallon jug testing this week of TSXs/GMXs/TTSXs and will post results.

sounds good, the .30 168 ttsx has the lower minimum of 1600, apparently the 7mm 139 in 1400. Look forward to the results

 

[Laelkhunter]

I think the Barnes LRX is designed to expand properly at lower velocities that are encountered at longer range. I seem to remember seeing a YouTube video that explained their difference from the TTSX. My Elk hunting plans include a 400 yard or less shot, so I used the TTSX in my .340 Weatherby.

 

[swampokie]

The 30-06 Sucks Because, Well, It’s OLD And Slow!

Let’s face it, no one drives a Model T anymore, and that thing didn’t hit the streets until two years AFTER the 30-06 had been sending bullets limping down range. The 30-06 is literally a throwback to the horse and buggy days. The Model T could rip down the dusty trails of early America at a top speed of perhaps 45 mph. The 30-06 was similarly lethargic, pushing its original 150-grain bullet a mere 2,700 fps. That’s a plodding 1,841 mph. Ho hum. Yes, it’s true that today’s powders can nudge 150-grain bullets to 3,000 fps, but the 300 RUM can smoke them to 3,550 fps!

Shoot some 55gr accelerators in that old mayberry rfd 30-06 and u will be shooting fast enuff to travel back in time to an era that there wasn't a forum availablefor u to type ur disdain for anything thing old school or hokie. Cheers

 

[BFR]

The 30-06 Sucks Because, Well, It’s OLD And Slow!

Let’s face it, no one drives a Model T anymore, and that thing didn’t hit the streets until two years AFTER the 30-06 had been sending bullets limping down range. The 30-06 is literally a throwback to the horse and buggy days. The Model T could rip down the dusty trails of early America at a top speed of perhaps 45 mph. The 30-06 was similarly lethargic, pushing its original 150-grain bullet a mere 2,700 fps. That’s a plodding 1,841 mph. Ho hum. Yes, it’s true that today’s powders can nudge 150-grain bullets to 3,000 fps, but the 300 RUM can smoke them to 3,550 fps!

Actually my old 06 can push a 165 gr bullet out at 3300 FPS if I want it to. But everyone is entitled to their opinion, mine is that my old JC Higgins rifle has been killing critters plumb dead since it was built in 1952. Can’t say it’s outdated, just very experienced.