Wolves in Colorado

[Phaseolus]

Like I said that was my opinion...... I believe if there is an ecosystem large enough to support wolves Colorado’s areas amongst the continental divide would fit, its large and for the most part very wild. Thank you for the bit on the physical traits of these wolves I had forgotten about that. However how did any mule deer or Elk survive in the first place initially while being around wolves as well as other predators that were way more imposing and successful than wolves, and there were at least a dozen predators at that time, yet elk and deer survived. Genetic memory is a thing and at first as were seeing in Idaho especially, wolves wreak havoc on herd numbers but then what happens? The same thing that happens since the beginning of time animals adapt. Same thing could be said about the bigger wolves.... eventually they will level out to the size their habitat influences. One could argue the lack of abundance of land now can’t foster survival of ungulates but once we colonized the west, there was still elk and mule deer and at that time hide hunting for money was still a thing so elk and mule deer were consistently hunted more than now. During this same time in history wolves still existed and the ungulates still remained. Wolves didn’t go away until we as people got involved and more specifically when we started using strychnine to poison them. I think homeostasis would eventually be achieved. It’s an extremely complicated subject as has been said before which is why we have experts in the field making these decisions that think about this more than any of us do asides from hopping on the Rokslide forum.

I think the flaw in your argument is when you state, “Which is why we have experts in the field making these decisions...” is that the experts are not making these decisions. Rather, the courts and public opinion are making these decisions.

 

[BeastOfTheTrees]

I don’t want to fight with anyone who’s a hunter at all because frankly we all care about the environment more than most because we’re in it and apart of the cycle of things. As well as don’t get confused where I stand with hunting or Anti Hunting, believe me I care more about hunting and the environment then most, but there is a definitive middle ground to come to when it becomes animal rights of wildlife and ecosystems in contrast to what hunters want when hunters purely think about hunting. But there are many things that happen before a whole population of an animal is gone..... this wolf isn’t some genetically engineered monster and allowing nature and wolves is completely different than vaccines for small pox.... Us creating vaccines IS adaptation not the same as letting nature go.... nature will always go but species adapt and survive not far off from when wolves first made it down the Rockies from Beringia when the glaciers melted and guess what those wolves were bigger than wolves now but over time look what happened those wolves ended up only being what the habitat influenced them to be. What about Mexican wolves coming up from New Mexico/Arizona border lands? Think those won’t penetrate Colorado? Those ones are smaller than the average wolf found around here in Colorado 200 years ago....... who knows maybe these Super wolves interbreed with the Mexican wolves and create a wolf more in tune with the natural balance of things.

 

[BeastOfTheTrees]

I think the flaw in your argument is when you state, “Which is why we have experts in the field making these decisions...” is that the experts are not making these decisions. Rather, the courts and public opinion are making these decisions.

Negative a court justice has to analyze then make a decision which is what they are sworn to an oath to do. Therefor they can’t only consider what one side is saying they listen to both then make a decision. Court justice also consult experts and researchers before reaching a verdict. I’m not speaking upon all court justices because I’m sure some listen more intently to research or public more but I refuse to believe that a court justice just makes a decision without doing homework upon said subject.

 

[NoWiser]

My dad and I were hunting Unit 2 this year and he saw a wolf. We’ve seen enough here in MN that I have no doubt he knows what he was looking at. They are naturally migrating to Colorado as they should so I really don’t think there will be a reintroduction.

I hunt far NE Minnesota and see wolves often and hear them most every night from my tent. They are one of my favorite animals and hunting just isn’t the same when I’m not in wolf country.

 

[JWP58]

Negative a court justice has to analyze then make a decision which is what they are sworn to an oath to do. Therefor they can’t only consider what one side is saying they listen to both then make a decision. Court justice also consult experts and researchers before reaching a verdict. I’m not speaking upon all court justices because I’m sure some listen more intently to research or public more but I refuse to believe that a court justice just makes a decision without doing homework upon said subject.

Go look at any decisions the 9th circuit makes on anything, and try to tell me they dont push a particular opinion/agenda.

 

[Akwoodchuck]

Yep, no wildlife whatsoever left in AK, zip zilch nada....wolfies got em all....

 

[BeastOfTheTrees]

Go look at any decisions the 9th circuit makes on anything, and try to tell me they dont push a particular opinion/agenda.

Like I said I’m sure there are few but you can’t throw a whole batch of eggs out over one or two bad eggs

 

[jmez]

Check out the recent ruling on the grizzly season in WY.

You haven't been around the legal system much if you think it is churning out unbiased, informed rulings.

 

[pumatom]

Having an occasional wolf that comes thru is one thing
Having the feds truck down packs from Canada and dump them will have a huge impact

 

[TripleJ]

Negative a court justice has to analyze then make a decision which is what they are sworn to an oath to do. Therefor they can’t only consider what one side is saying they listen to both then make a decision. Court justice also consult experts and researchers before reaching a verdict. I’m not speaking upon all court justices because I’m sure some listen more intently to research or public more but I refuse to believe that a court justice just makes a decision without doing homework upon said subject.

I think you may be putting too much faith in the powers that be. Here in Oregon, wildlife management decisions are controlled by the ballot box. Policy decisions have been made and will continue to be made by the uninformed and ignorant city dwellers of the Willamette Valley...Portland, Salem, and Eugene. The trained professionals then have to try to manage within the bounds of the policies that have been handed to them. When it goes to court, the judges appointed by the politicians that the masses have elected are overwhelmingly left leaning and side with the ballot box decisions of the masses. The end result is that Oregon has had a huge predator problem (cougars/bears) for quite a few years, and now the wolves have moved in, and I can't imagine that will help the problem of declining deer/elk populations.

 

[WTFJohn]

Having an occasional wolf that comes thru is one thing
Having the feds truck down packs from Canada and dump them will have a huge impact

The ”Feds” aren’t trucking down anything. CPW opposes direct reintroduction, as do most local politicians. The only ones calling for reintroduction are the same pro-wolf groups as everywhere else.

https://www.westernslopenow.com/new...troduction-of-wolves-into-colorado/1191481218

MESA COUNTY, Colo. - Mesa County Commissioners vote unanimously to oppose the active relocation of wolves into Colorado stating concerns over livestock, human safety and wildlife populations of animals currently living in the county.

The resolution the board passed Monday states an opposition to any effort to expand or introduce populations of wolves into Colorado, support of taking all wolf species off of the Endangered Species Act list and supports recommendations made by Colorado Parks and Wildlife, including a resolution from 2016.

"The people in this community, we're big on outdoor recreation." Scott McInnis, a Mesa County Commissioner, said, "People don't need to be at risk of a wolf pack. We don't need to have the moose decimated."

McInnis is also concerned about the impact on deer and elk populations.
In their resolution, commissioners say they are also worried about the diseases wolves carry that can transmit to other wildlife, livestock and humans.
"...predation by wolves of the majestic wildlife and domestic livestock is a serious problem that Colorado shouldn't invite, encourage or accept..." the resolution states.

CPW says that there have been a small number of groups that have began the conversations to relocate wolves into Colorado.

Some of their arguments to do so are improvements in river health, the natural food chain and improvements in the ecosystem.

The agency opposes the intentional release of any wolf species in Colorado.

In 1995, Grey Wolves were reintroduced into Yellowstone National Park. The species of wolves can travel dozens of miles in a single day and some may have moved south.

CPW reports that over the past 15 years, credible sightings and accidental killings of wolves in Colorado have occurred.

Supporters of reintroduction of say this is the wolves' natural habitat anyway.

"Rattlesnakes were on where we have Main Street in Grand Junction, they were here long before we had Main Street," McInnis said, "You think people would be happy to have rattlesnakes on Main Street."

Colorado Parks and Wildlife says, Colorado is in the historic range of Grey Wolves as they were eliminated from the state in the 1930's-40's.

In the resolution from Colorado Parks and Wildlife, it states that if wolves naturally find their way into Colorado, the agency wouldn't take management steps against them.

If reintroduction were to happen, commissioners request for reimbursement to livestock, wildlife management, hunting and "other adverse effects on local economies."

 

[srfdmatty]

Hunters beware of this predator's impact on game. As an avid hunter and outdoorsman I can appreciate the natural balance of all species. I know from experience though that deer and other game species cannot hold up under the pressure from unchecked growth of predators. As a ranch owner I saw what the California voters complete protection of mountain lions did to the once thriving black tail deer population.
30 years ago while riding my horse through our beautiful 3000 acre ranch I would see see healthy herds of deer, bunches of quail, rabbits and grouse. Today in the 30 years since California voters outlawed all hunting of mountain lions the deer, rabbits and birds are virtually non existent. Without any ability to control the mountain lions, hunting my ranch is virtually over for myself, my kids and my family. I feel sad for my kids as they learn to hunt that they will never know what it was like hunting before unchecked predator growth.
In the weeks of hard hunting I put in this year on my ranch I saw 7 deer and 10 mountain lions on 3000 acres. Not to mention what they've done to the once great mule deer herds of NE Ca. Yeah there's a problem. Don't let uninformed voters decide what's right for our game populations.
Good luck with those wolves .....

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[sndmn11]

I was shocked that a hunter didn't harvest the wolf that escaped in Divide for about a month.

 

[Phaseolus]

The ”Feds” aren’t trucking down anything. CPW opposes direct reintroduction, as do most local politicians. The only ones calling for reintroduction are the same pro-wolf groups as everywhere else.

https://www.westernslopenow.com/new...troduction-of-wolves-into-colorado/1191481218

I don’t think our Mesa County Comissioners have much pull. Maybe Mcinnis but Pugs and John Justman are recognized as being brain dead. I’m being nice in that estimate.

 

[tdhanses]

I get a kick out of those that say these wolves were here before us, these wolves were never here till we brought them, no different then the feral pig problem we created. The original wolves that were historically here are long extinct, as are the dinosaurs that were here long before them.

I have nothing against the wolves and now that they are here see no need to wipe them out but they must be closely managed before their effects decimate Native game. This isn’t the wild wild west and with shrinking habitat ranges will also create shrinking healthy populations of all species.

 

[buffsmoker]

I get a kick out of those that say these wolves were here before us, these wolves were never here till we brought them, no different then the feral pig problem we created. The original wolves that were historically here are long extinct, as are the dinosaurs that were here long before them.

I have nothing against the wolves and now that they are here see no need to wipe them out but they must be closely managed before their effects decimate Native game. This isn’t the wild wild west and with shrinking habitat ranges will also create shrinking healthy populations of all species.

Just curious.....what wolves were historically here and when did they go extinct? Or rather, when were they extirpated?

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[WCS]

Just curious.....what wolves were historically here and when did they go extinct? Or rather, when were they extirpated?

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Under historical classifications, C. lupus irremotus was considered to be the subspecies of wolf that would have inhabited the Yellowstone area. Advancements in genetics has led to rethinking subspecies divisions, and some have suggested reductions of the number of subspecies of wolves in North America (as well as other species). Genetic testing is beginning to indicate that there is likely only 4 subspecies of gray wolf in North America. These would be the eastern wolf (C. lupus lycaon), coastal wolf (C. lupus columbianus), the mexican wolf(C. lupus baileyi), and the interior wolf (C. lupus occidentalis). With little in the way of natural barriers to isolate populations there has been a fair amount of gene flow between the populations. Mexican wolves do carry some genetic markers that suggest they are descendants of the first wolf populations to cross over into North America. Eastern wolves have also shown genetic evidence of interbreeding with coyotes. To say that some wolves have been driven to extinction, or even extirpation is not as clear cut as some would make it. Fortunately with museum specimens and private collections geneticists are able to determine some of the genes that were lost with populations that were wiped out. There's been some great work done on the wolf genome and wolf genetics by Bridgett von Holdt out of Princeton, Robert Wayne's lab out of UCLA and the Musiani lab out of the University of Calgary. There's probably some other researchers that I'm forgetting, but these one's are just off the top of my head.

 

[Ben Nicholson]

I saw one in GMU 14 last September.

 

[Bulldawg]

I think they they need to bring in Grizzly bears first.


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[tdhanses]

Just curious.....what wolves were historically here and when did they go extinct? Or rather, when were they extirpated?

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They brought in Yukon wolves which are a larger more aggressive sub species.