Training a pack horse

[Mtaylor]

Hello everybody, great pics and love the advice. I grew up around horses I rode and cowboyed plenty but never hunted on one. How do you get your stock used to the blood and the hide? Someone once told me to smear the blood on its nose so that's the only thing it can smell. I tried that once with a deer I brought home but that did not turn out so well.

 

[Jason Snyder]

That's about the last way I'd train a horse. You don't teach them to rein by going directly to a spade bit, you start them with a snaffle and a hackamore.

Get a green hide and let them smell it and get used to it on their own terms. Put them in a round pen, drape a green elk hide over the rails and put a scoop or two of grain right by the elk hide. Progress from there. If the horse has never packed an animal, I'll lead them up to the critter and let them smell it on their own for a while before I do anything.

 

[cowboy]

The above is good advise. There are times that you have to do on the job training - just no choice. If you find yourself where you have to pack an animal out with an inexperienced horse there are a couple things that I have done.

1) Blindfold them with a jacket or something, pack the animal, let them stand tied up for as long as you feel comfortable. Best you have the packed animal snubbed up to a confident rider with a equally confident horse. Don't mess around, pull the blind and head off down the trail.
2) if you can bone your kill out, put into panniers.
3) if you get a horse that starts a fit around blood, back the horse off until it calms down, smear his nose with vicks voporub. Give him 15 min. and he won't be able to smell his own azz. Vicks doesn't hurt them one bit, wears off gradually, and is a great coverup. I carry 2 canisters of the old style 35mm film canisters filled with Vicks in my saddle bag. Reminds me - haven't needed any the last few years - better check to see what's still in the canisters is still good.

Always keep in mind the "attitude" of the horse you are trying to pack - 95% of the time you already know what is going to happen beforehand so act accordingly and if you start something - finish it because that horse/mule will always remember what he can get away with.

 

[MULEPACKHUNTER]

Blast some coyotes and drape the hide over the fence for a few days, repeat weekly. If you take care if the meat quick it won't smell much and if you bag it and manty it won't smell much.

 

[Mtaylor]

Thanks guys sound advice so far. Keep it coming. Vicks is a really good idea. Do you work with your horses getting them used to a gun shot or are they tied up to a tree most of the time?

 

[cowboy]

Both. But start out at home with a 22LR with someone holding the horse and shooter out in front so horse can see what he is hearing. Gradually work a little closer to the horse. Then switch to something a little louder from a gun standpoint and repeat. Best thing is to not be in a hurry and work at it a little bit each day.

 

[rayporter]

i use a BB gun to start them and add feed as a reward. soon pow = food. cowboy shooters have ear plugs for the horses but that is not practical in the field.

i also have a pen close to my range so i can cheat by leaving them near a lot of shooting.

as to meat, most animals dont seem to care but those that do need work to cure. on the job training can be exciting, so a word to the wise.

put the vicks on early, long before they ever get a whiff.

 

[roknHS]

Don't ever think it is a good idea to shoot from the back of a horse. It's not even a good idea to shoot while standing next to your mount. The chance of riding up on a game animal and having it stand there while you dismount, get your weapon out of the scabbard, reaquire the target and then make a good shot is very, very slim. You've probably got a better chance of being hit on the head by falling space junk.
Now if you're talking about tying your mount below the crest of a ridge in some trees and sneaking up to the crest and firing a shot while your mount is 50yds away, that may be a real possibility. Most of the time, horse back hunting is riding out from camp, tying up your mount (with the lead rope and halter, not the bridle reins) and then you go off on foot to hunt.
Ever have one of your hunting buddies torch off a shot from the side or behind you when you weren't expecting it? Your first millisecond reaction is shock, confusion and of course your ears hurt. Then you get pissed. Your horse is gonna have the same reaction.

 

[wyosteve]

Yeah, I always have to chuckle at horse sales when they announce you can shoot off the back of the horse. Lunacy imo!

 

[Logan T]

Don't ever think it is a good idea to shoot from the back of a horse. It's not even a good idea to shoot while standing next to your mount. The chance of riding up on a game animal and having it stand there while you dismount, get your weapon out of the scabbard, reaquire the target and then make a good shot is very, very slim. You've probably got a better chance of being hit on the head by falling space junk.
Now if you're talking about tying your mount below the crest of a ridge in some trees and sneaking up to the crest and firing a shot while your mount is 50yds away, that may be a real possibility. Most of the time, horse back hunting is riding out from camp, tying up your mount (with the lead rope and halter, not the bridle reins) and then you go off on foot to hunt.
Ever have one of your hunting buddies torch off a shot from the side or behind you when you weren't expecting it? Your first millisecond reaction is shock, confusion and of course your ears hurt. Then you get pissed. Your horse is gonna have the same reaction.

Just for all kinds of safety reasons I would agree with it being a bad idea to shoot off of a horse in the mountains. However I would disagree with it being a bad idea to shoot while standing next to it (or two steps in front of them). I think it is actually a good thing for them to get used to.

Horses are smart animals. My black lab is a smart hunter. I'd say my horses are smarter than my lab everyday of the week. Have you ever seen a bird dog freeze and look at the sky or look for a bird just because they hear you pump the action on a shotgun? Horses too can figure out what the sound of you jacking a shell into the chamber of a rifle means and be prepared for it.

Like you said most of the time hunting off horseback is riding, tying up and glassing or hunting. But I've personally killed more critters and seen many animals killed by just riding up on an animal, jumping off, grabbing the gun from the scabbard like you say, and shooting it just in front of my horse (with reins in hand or hunting buddies hand) than otherwise. And I have yet to be touched by falling space junk. Happened once when I had a mountain goat tag- dad held the reins 5 steps behind me while I made the shot, and I'm glad I was able to do that because if I had to backtrack to find a spot to tie up at and then come back and find the goat, there's a very strong chance that I would have eaten tag soup with that once in a lifetime tag.

Heres another time it happened. Spooked this bear at 40 yards, jumped off and shot it at 120 which was the first available shot I had. And I only had another 10 yards or less before it would have disappeared. Had the reins in my hand when I touched off the 300WSM. If I had to find a spot to tie off to, I would have not even seen the bear go out of sight.



That said, I've never shot off of a horse, and have no ambition to. If someone else can, good for them. It just shows the level of trust their horse has for them.

 

[blick]

You can shoot off all my horses, once.

 

[rayporter]

the first elk we shot back in 84 was spotted by my mule and my bud jumped off and shot it beside me while i was sitting on the mule and his mule was just ground tied.

is is actually fairly common to shoot off of stock in arkansas while squirrel hunting or bird hunting.

 

[Mtaylor]

Thanks for all of your comments. Good advice for sure, hopefully I can put it to the test sooner than later.

 

[goodgrouper]

The first time I put an elk hide quarter over the fence rail to let them get used to the smell at home my wife's paint got a wiff and lost his mind. My sons horse watched this happen and picked up the hide in his mouth and chased him around the pasture with it. true story.

 

[Stefan]

http://www.cmsaevents.com/home/ I met a guy that competes mounted shooting.

 

[Stefan]

The first time I put an elk hide quarter over the fence rail to let them get used to the smell at home my wife's paint got a wiff and lost his mind. My sons horse watched this happen and picked up the hide in his mouth and chased him around the pasture with it. true story.

Your sons horse has a good sense of humor!

 

[Hunt'nFish]

When loading meat on a green animal, don't tie them off to a tree. We lost a young mule to a broken neck out in the backcountry once. Although we weren't loading anything at the time, it just freaked out for some reason when tied to a tree a camp. Probably should have had it on a breakaway or maybe a longline that had some give.

We had a mule once that just didn't like the smell of meat. Great mule otherwise. So for a long time we had to hobble it and always had someone hold the lead rope while we loaded the panniers.

As for training, so low and progressive is always the best approach. A hide moved progressively nearer and nearer should work. But we just used a small strip of hide tied on their saddle. Then progressed to a bloody game bag in empty panniers, and so on until they learned that nothing bad was gonna happen. I do like the grain reward approach as well.

As with most things, it just depends on the animal and thier trust level with us.
Hunt'nFish

 

[Ftguides]

Lots of good suggestions.

Try not to introduce blood in the mountains and when you have pressure to get out of somewhere. now to reality... cause you almost certainly will introduce blood where you kill an elk... in the mountains! I have a three part strategy.
1. Bring an old pro. Take your fresh pack animal and tie him to a breakaway on your experienced pack animal. Now walk them slowly up to the quarters. If the new guy doesn't blow up, take him off the breakaway and tie him close to the quarters and the other pack animal. Pack the head and a shoulders on the experienced horse/mule. 7/10th of the time you just trained the new pack animal to not fear game blood. Pack the new guy slowly and cautiously.
2. If the new stock goes nuts, have someone hold him and slowly move a little bag of backstraps closer to him. One step at a time. Take your time and usually you can convince him you aren't going to hurt him. Take and put the backstrap bag on the top of his saddle for a couple minutes and let him chill out.
3. If #1 and #2 don't work, blind fold him with a jacket and scotch hobble him with a larger diameter lash rope. You can knock over stock pretty fast doing this, so make sure he's clear of objects that could impale him if he falls.

An animal that just can't get use to blood is generally not a good pack animal. It's an indicator of a crappy disposition for the mountains. Not a hard and fast rule, but seems true in my experience. It's the same type of animal that randomly goes buckin bronco if a pan clanks in a pannier even after packing for twenty years. The best stock I've ever had didn't even twitch when I threw a bear on them the first time they packed game. Animals like that are golden for life.

I shoot near horses all the time. I've literally had hunters get a rest 5 feet from a couple horses I'm holding and unload their gun. I've found that if you think your horses are going to blow, they will. If you hold them like it's no big deal, they just perk their ears up. Stock picks up on human anxiety. (If you don't believe me, get someone stressed out and raising their voice in a barn full of saddled horses) Sometimes they will blow regardless, but just run 30-40 yards. and sure, I've had them run their all the way home. It just makes for a better memory when you look at an old picture of a big buck or elk with a guy smiling over it!

anyone who shoots from the top of a horse is insane

 

[BigAntlerGetter]

This is an old thread but still some good info on it. I like a lot of the ideas have used just about all of them. Here's some of my suggestions. Pack ur animal with everything you can before introducing meat and blood. Doesn't matter if they are used to it the more you can put on them before the season the better all around pack animal you will have. And when they know whatever is put on their back is their job I've found it easier to load meat. Don't jump straight to dead animals. Another Thing I've seen and this was from coworkers bringing their horses to help pack at my old job was how great they were packing stuff around the pasture, but when we got on the mountain it was completely different. Use your animals in the mountains before hand not just the pasture at home. Remember ur pasture is their home as well they know every crook and cranny what's there what's not there. Step out into the woods and there is no longer any control its the wild again. It can change a horses mind set, I'll pack a horse around the pasture a while maybe go onto some Blm around my house with empty packs, then load them, and by the end they will be packing the wall tent cause that's my biggest bulkiest item. Then they will pack salt in the summer, and then start on pack in camps in the fall. It's a progression. When it comes to meat some love it some hate it, I've seen horse not even care one bit at all others won't go near it. Best thing to do is load ur veteran first right in front of the greenhorn. This way he sees its ok. And worst case scenario with a horse that doesn't like packing meat I've tied the green hide around their head for the night worked wonders.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dallen]

Just for all kinds of safety reasons I would agree with it being a bad idea to shoot off of a horse in the mountains. However I would disagree with it being a bad idea to shoot while standing next to it (or two steps in front of them). I think it is actually a good thing for them to get used to.

Like you said most of the time hunting off horseback is riding, tying up and glassing or hunting. But I've personally killed more critters and seen many animals killed by just riding up on an animal, jumping off, grabbing the gun from the scabbard like you say, and shooting it just in front of my horse (with reins in hand or hunting buddies hand) than otherwise. And I have yet to be touched by falling space junk........

That said, I've never shot off of a horse, and have no ambition to. If someone else can, good for them. It just shows the level of trust their horse has for them.

I almost had to shoot off of my horses back last summer. Was packing supplies into our moose camp and had a bear coming at me pretty hard. I had two loaded horses strung behind me on a narrow trail, and really had no choice at that point. I pulled my feet out of the stirrups, because I knew I was going to come off, pulled the rifle up and waited until he crossed my shoot no shoot line, and ..........click......bad sound.. (dang cross bolt safetys on the Marlin's). I racked in the next shell, not realizing why it failed to fire and I think the noise, or the site of us was enough to stop the bear at 15 yards. Horses were rock steady at that point...the bear stopped, I yelled and Mr. bear decided it wasn't a moose herd after all and went back off the trail never to be seen again. I am thankful the rifle didn't go off.....the barrel was right over the top of the horses head. It would have turned out badly, I'm sure of that.

As for me, no space junk here either. I've shot a good number of animals while riding in or out of camp. All standing next to or right in front of the horse after dismounting. Moose seem to stand there for it...I think they are still trying to figure out if they are cows or not. I think shooting a bull at that point is rape prevention for my horses.

I've done the OJT method of getting horses used to blood, downed animals. Mine are pretty calm to begin with, and I "ease" them close to the dead critter and they do fine that way. In fact, they are to the point now, that they will eat the grass that is right next to the dead moose, caribou......and seem oblivious to the animal at that point. Time and patience....

Horses are great hunting tools....they are unbelievably good at picking up animals way before I do. I call, watch the horses, call, watch the horses. Most of the time, the horses will act as "pointers" and tell me that something is inbound, and where its coming from. They also make a lot of noise that is very natural moosey sounding. Eating willow brush, stomping around.....sounds like a couple of moose while I'm calling....works out well for us.