350 legend copper impact peformance on deer

[Fordguy]

I decided to try the 350 legend Winchester copper impact ammo this year for firearm deer season. I shot 2 deer, both pass through, one at 20 yards one at 80. One shot went through both shoulders, the other shot went through behind the nearside shoulder and exited the offside shoulder. Both deer traveled approximately 40 yards after the shot. When I pulled the hide back I was surprised at the amount of bloodshot meat. There's a rough 16" circle around the entrance and exit that looks like bubbly blood pudding.
I'm just wondering if other people have experienced anything similar.
Just wondering if others have experienced anything like this with 350 copper impact. This is my first experience using copper ammo on deer. It's accurate enough but that much meat damage bothers me.

 

[MThuntr]

At 20 yards, that's a lot of energy into soft flesh so I'd probably expect a lot of bloodshot meat. Hitting the shoulders will give you a bit of bloodshot meat too. Keeping bullets off the shoulder is key to reduced meat damage.

This year I shot 4 deer with 6.5 CM with 120gr CX bullets and got quite a bit of bloodshot meat at 200 yards. While not a direct relationship to your 350 legend, I do experience bloodshot meat with copper bullets.

 

[Macintosh]

You wont get a lot of info on this forum in general on the straight wall cartridges, as this website is mainly focused on western hunting. There is a big stigma against copper ammo due to the focus on long range hunting, but I’m not sure the two situations are super relevant to each other. In general copper ammo will result in significantly less bloodshot meat compared to all but the hardest bonded lead bullets because they create a significantly smaller wound channel and they don’t fragment at all. However, thats mainly in high velocity cartridges where minimum expansion velocity at distance is faster than muzzle velocity from some of the straight-wall cartridges or ML bullets, so I have no doubt the bullet itself is different somehow or else they wouldn’t expand much or at all.
The only relevant experience I have is with barnes copper ML bullets, which Im shooting at about 1750 fps muzzle velocity. These expand and anchor deer quite well in my limited experience, but I have not found meat damage to be significantly different than the lead ML bullets Ive used (mainly tc shockwaves both bonded and non-bonded). What would the impact velocity have been at 20 yards? My guess is if you had been using a lead bullet at the same range with the same hit you would have destroyed a lot more meat than you did, but thats just a guess. Different cartridge, but a buddy showed me a picture of a deer he shot with a 45-70 last season, there wasn’t much left of the front half of the deer. He found out the reason I use copper!

 

[Fordguy]

I'm guessing velocity at 20 yards. Was in the range of 2100 fps. I've used 170 grain soft points at 20 yards and had significantly less meat damage at similar velocities. In the past i used a 45-70 for crop damage deer hunting (orchard) and had very minimal meat damage, but I was using a heavy bullet that was moving fairly slowly.

 

[Rich M]

I like the 350 Legend and have a Ruger Ranch bolt.

Reload a bunch of diff bullets for it. Pretty much settled on Hornady FTX 165 gr bullets - have em going about 2350 fps. I just ordered a Burris 350 Legend BDC scope. Had a Vortex Diamondback BDC on it and zero shifted between range trips (not acceptable) - like the BDC for shooting the Legend out to 250 yards. This is 3 diff bullets at 100 yds - shot the 1 o'clock group first and dialed it over.



Tend to shoot just behind the shoulder or in a soft spot and out the opposing shoulder. Only have 2 deer down with the Legend, one was DRT, other ran about 75 yards spray painting trees out entrance hole (tight to shoulder) cause exit was thru paunch. Did not get a lot of blood shot meat on either. Both deer were does and inside 60 yards. This is exit side - entrance is tight behind shoulder on other side & covered in blood.



Finding that most factory ammo is kinda "stiff" - mostly it seems that there is a bullet that needs 1800-1900-2000 fps to expand well and they sell it at 2100 fps, by time it gets to 150 yds, it is outside the preferred velocity for the bullet. Why I use 165 gr FTXs - read that they'll expand down to 800 fps. That way can get expansion, even if the bullet is below 1800 fps. But I also load and the 2350 bracket is faster than factory stuff. Winchester got it right with the 150 gr hunting ammo. Aside from Winchester and Hornady, most other manufacturers been lazy instead of designing a new bullet to maximize performance at these velocities.

It seems like your copper ammo works pretty good. Not familiar with copper bullets (mainly due to cost) but they sure sound good. Decent energy dump if there is a lot of blood shot meat. Doesn't seem worth it to shoot the shoulders if it doesn't incapacitate the deer.

Anyway - there are some 350 Legend users on here, some get more deer than others, some reload and others don't. Sorry to hear about the lost meat - rib shots should eliminate that - or shoot thru the ribs and take out the offside shoulder will reduce meat loss.

 

[roymunson]

We killed 3 or 4 deer last year with ours and about the same the year before. I've reloaded 165 FTX as well as 170 Interlocks and both do the job.

I'd be more concerned with copper not opening up due to hard hard it is and how slow the bullet is. But you're probably ok.

Punch lung holes or beat the shoulder up and they'll die. Good work.

 

[Fordguy]

I like the 350 Legend and have a Ruger Ranch bolt.

Reload a bunch of diff bullets for it. Pretty much settled on Hornady FTX 165 gr bullets - have em going about 2350 fps. I just ordered a Burris 350 Legend BDC scope. Had a Vortex Diamondback BDC on it and zero shifted between range trips (not acceptable) - like the BDC for shooting the Legend out to 250 yards. This is 3 diff bullets at 100 yds - shot the 1 o'clock group first and dialed it over.

View attachment 628316

Tend to shoot just behind the shoulder or in a soft spot and out the opposing shoulder. Only have 2 deer down with the Legend, one was DRT, other ran about 75 yards spray painting trees out entrance hole (tight to shoulder) cause exit was thru paunch. Did not get a lot of blood shot meat on either. Both deer were does and inside 60 yards. This is exit side - entrance is tight behind shoulder on other side & covered in blood.

View attachment 628317

Finding that most factory ammo is kinda "stiff" - mostly it seems that there is a bullet that needs 1800-1900-2000 fps to expand well and they sell it at 2100 fps, by time it gets to 150 yds, it is outside the preferred velocity for the bullet. Why I use 165 gr FTXs - read that they'll expand down to 800 fps. That way can get expansion, even if the bullet is below 1800 fps. But I also load and the 2350 bracket is faster than factory stuff. Winchester got it right with the 150 gr hunting ammo. Aside from Winchester and Hornady, most other manufacturers been lazy instead of designing a new bullet to maximize performance at these velocities.

It seems like your copper ammo works pretty good. Not familiar with copper bullets (mainly due to cost) but they sure sound good. Decent energy dump if there is a lot of blood shot meat. Doesn't seem worth it to shoot the shoulders if it doesn't incapacitate the deer.

Anyway - there are some 350 Legend users on here, some get more deer than others, some reload and others don't. Sorry to hear about the lost meat - rib shots should eliminate that - or shoot thru the ribs and take out the offside shoulder will reduce meat loss.

The buck (the 80 yard shot) was just behind the shoulder on entrance and exit was through the offside shoulder. It was opening day, and deer were moving. These were my 9th and 10th deer with the 350. I've used a variety of ammo and the Winchester 150 xp loads have been the most accurate ( consistently an inch or less at 100) but unless it's a double lung, ribs only shot I haven't had an exit with the xp. It doesn't leave much of a blood trail, and I hunt the edges of some very thick brush, tall grass and autumn olive. When the deer get back in the brush they can be tough to find, even though 350 tracking jobs have been short.

I was hoping for pass through shots with good blood trails and minimal meat damage- even on shoulders for instances when I want to anchor one on the spot. The copper impact did pass through, blood trail was OK, and the deer expired quickly. So it seems check most of the boxes.

Lol. I guess I'm nitpicking. I suppose I'm looking for the perfect bullet that probably doesn't exist.

 

[Rich M]

The buck (the 80 yard shot) was just behind the shoulder on entrance and exit was through the offside shoulder. It was opening day, and deer were moving. These were my 9th and 10th deer with the 350. I've used a variety of ammo and the Winchester 150 xp loads have been the most accurate ( consistently an inch or less at 100) but unless it's a double lung, ribs only shot I haven't had an exit with the xp. It doesn't leave much of a blood trail, and I hunt the edges of some very thick brush, tall grass and autumn olive. When the deer get back in the brush they can be tough to find, even though 350 tracking jobs have been short.

I was hoping for pass through shots with good blood trails and minimal meat damage- even on shoulders for instances when I want to anchor one on the spot. The copper impact did pass through, blood trail was OK, and the deer expired quickly. So it seems check most of the boxes.

Lol. I guess I'm nitpicking. I suppose I'm looking for the perfect bullet that probably doesn't exist.

Nitpicking is good - It all boils down to what actually works for you & makes you smile. Hope you find something you are comfortable with. I'm searching as well.

The Legend is a nice cartridge, but it isn't "the ultimate" cartridge. Not sure if it exists - In my case, I'd like 3006 performance with 350 Legend recoil.

 

[Fordguy]

Nitpicking is good - It all boils down to what actually works for you & makes you smile. Hope you find something you are comfortable with. I'm searching as well.

The Legend is a nice cartridge, but it isn't "the ultimate" cartridge. Not sure if it exists - In my case, I'd like 3006 performance with 350 Legend recoil.

30-06 Hornady custom lites worked really well on my last antelope hunt, but shots were within 200.

If you're looking for faster 350 legend- look at bear creek ballistics. I think they have an all copper load near 2600 fps.

 

[Rich M]

30-06 Hornady custom lites worked really well on my last antelope hunt, but shots were within 200.

If you're looking for faster 350 legend- look at bear creek ballistics. I think they have an all copper load near 2600 fps.

That’s a snappy 350 Legend. I have some 158 soft points that were reading 2450 on the chrono.

Was thinking about liading 3006 down w 125 sst bullets. Just dont know if my flinch is attached to the gun too or just the caliber.

 

[Fordguy]

That’s a snappy 350 Legend. I have some 158 soft points that were reading 2450 on the chrono.

Was thinking about liading 3006 down w 125 sst bullets. Just dont know if my flinch is attached to the gun too or just the caliber.

The 125 sst custom lite was comparable (in a savage axis) to the recoil of standard factory loads in the 350. However, bystanders have told me that the 30-06 125 sst custom lite is noticeably louder than the 350.

 

[bigbuckdj]

I am going to try the bear creek 140s this year in my 350 Legend AR, they group the best of anything Ive tried. I'll post some feedback, i dont see much on 350 legend copper bullets.

 

[Rich M]

The 125 sst custom lite was comparable (in a savage axis) to the recoil of standard factory loads in the 350. However, bystanders have told me that the 30-06 125 sst custom lite is noticeably louder than the 350.

Thanks for that! I'll give her a try seeing it is cheaper than buying a new gun.

I was shooting the 350 legend and then shot a 243 and the ladies said 243 was way louder.

 

[wesfromky]

I am going to try the bear creek 140s this year in my 350 Legend AR, they group the best of anything Ive tried. I'll post some feedback, i dont see much on 350 legend copper bullets.

Killed two deer so far this year with them, and a few previously with the 160's. They have worked well for me so far.

 

[bigbuckdj]

Killed two deer so far this year with them, and a few previously with the 160's. They have worked well for me so far.

Good to know! They shoot so much better than the other soft point loads I’ve tried, I’m excited to see the damage they do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fordguy]

Killed two deer so far this year with them, and a few previously with the 160's. They have worked well for me so far.

Are you willing to share details? Distance? Pass through? Blood trail? Distance deer traveled after the shot? What is accuracy like in your rifle, and what make model are you shooting?

 

[wesfromky]

Are you willing to share details? Distance? Pass through? Blood trail? Distance deer traveled after the shot? What is accuracy like in your rifle, and what make model are you shooting?

I made a post in one of the other .350 threads, but will put it here as well.

16" Ruger compact ranch with DeadAir wolfman. Bear creek ballistics 140gn.

Doe was right around 100 yards quartered to me. Hit a bit high just in front of shoulder, dropped where she was standing. No pass through that I noticed. Buck was maybe 40-50 yards, quartered away. Hit was behind shoulder, exit opposite shoulder. Went maybe 30 yards with the bottom third of his heart missing, dropped in sight.

I really don't shoot much. Just verify zero is pretty close at 100. Think the gun probably shoots 1.5 moa(ish) for me, probably better in better hands. The 160s seemed like they grouped a tiny bit better, but wanted the extra speed with the 140s.

Hopefully will have some additional data points next week for Ohio's gun season...

 

[bigbuckdj]

I made a post in one of the other .350 threads, but will put it here as well.

16" Ruger compact ranch with DeadAir wolfman. Bear creek ballistics 140gn.

Doe was right around 100 yards quartered to me. Hit a bit high just in front of shoulder, dropped where she was standing. No pass through that I noticed. Buck was maybe 40-50 yards, quartered away. Hit was behind shoulder, exit opposite shoulder. Went maybe 30 yards with the bottom third of his heart missing, dropped in sight.

I really don't shoot much. Just verify zero is pretty close at 100. Think the gun probably shoots 1.5 moa(ish) for me, probably better in better hands. The 160s seemed like they grouped a tiny bit better, but wanted the extra speed with the 140s.

Hopefully will have some additional data points next week for Ohio's gun season...

Are you shooting the AR length or the HVs with the pointy tips?

 

[wesfromky]

Are you shooting the AR length or the HVs with the pointy tips?

The standard OAL versions. I don't think the HV fit in the mag?

 

[Fordguy]

I made a post in one of the other .350 threads, but will put it here as well.

16" Ruger compact ranch with DeadAir wolfman. Bear creek ballistics 140gn.

Doe was right around 100 yards quartered to me. Hit a bit high just in front of shoulder, dropped where she was standing. No pass through that I noticed. Buck was maybe 40-50 yards, quartered away. Hit was behind shoulder, exit opposite shoulder. Went maybe 30 yards with the bottom third of his heart missing, dropped in sight.

I really don't shoot much. Just verify zero is pretty close at 100. Think the gun probably shoots 1.5 moa(ish) for me, probably better in better hands. The 160s seemed like they grouped a tiny bit better, but wanted the extra speed with the 140s.

Hopefully will have some additional data points next week for Ohio's gun season...

Much appreciated. Congrats on your success!