Does other gear like clothig play a role in your backpack sleep system?

[burgerta]

I am looking at getting a new sleep system that will keep me comfy for hunts that can expect nightime temps into the 20degree range, so I think I should be looking at 20degree bags right? (example Mid to Late September hunts in western Mountains and Alaska Interior etc.)
Mother nature is unpredictable in all of those areas and I still want to be prepared for when she throws a curve with colder than expected nights but at the same time I dont want to pack a BIG Arctic Cold Bombproof bag if its excessive.

I think I am leaning towards synthetic but not totally decided yet...I already have a wiggys 20 degree synthetic that I liked for a Float hunt I did but that was not a lot of Backpacking.

Do you get a bag rated for the temps you can expect and then maybe use puffy gear to help out when temps get colder than you expected or do you pack a bag that has a lower rating so you are prepared for those nights that may be colder than expected?

I am just kinda wondering what temp ratings you look for and what role if any things like clothing and puffy gear plays in your sleep system when your using it for BackPack hunts and you are trying to be weight concious.

What would your line of thinking be...
Would you guys lean towards getting a 20 degree bag and supplement with clothing gear if temps dipped colder than your expected?
Or would you pack a bigger say like 15 degree bag and just always be prepared? In that case, how much lower of a rating do you look for?

I understand there are a lot of variables but what are the basics that you consider for your hunting situations?

 

[shaun]

During that time of year I run a 20* slick bag and am plenty warm. I normally sleep hot though. I used that temp rating this year in AK, CO, and CA without being cold. If I knew temps were going to dip I might sleep in my base layers and socks. IMO a lower temp rating for that time of year is overkill. If you are hunting the later seasons then by all means I would use a different bag. But for what you are saying a 20* bag would suffice

 

[ohhiitznik]

Yes it does for me. I use a 30degree prodigy x quilt and when it gets cold ill wear my merino and even a fleece along with a beanie.

 

[AK Troutbum]

I've always used a 32 ounce 32° synthetic bag and I always sleep in merino wool tops, bottoms, socks and fleece hat. If it gets really cold I'll add puffy pants and jacket to the mix. This year I purchased a 10° quilt that I'll be using instead of my sleeping bag and saving myself 12 ounces.

 

[Yellowknife]

I have some experience sleeping at or below the temp rating of my bag. Frankly, I hate doing it. Piling on puffy gear, using a bivy, adding hot water bottles, etc works... but I've never gotten a good nights sleep that way. I really prefer my bag to be rated for at least 10 degrees colder than I actually see in the field.

I use a +15 for most of the year, but like to switch to something warmer on a high country September moose hunt (interior Alaska), where seeing 15 degrees is an actual possibility.

Yk

 

[unm1136]

I run a 20 degree setup, too. When I hammock, which is most of the time, if the wind is up, or I am concerned that the wind will increase I pull on my USGI black fleece ECWCS stuff. I do this rather than hang a tarp over my hammock most of the time. I sleep far better that way, then when I do anything else. I have slept down to 19 degrees in my longhandles and a fleece jacket. My black fleece also gets used when sitting glassing below freezing in the wind. I hike to the location, and put on my fleece and gore-tex, also USGI surplus, over my hunting clothes, and am pretty good in the mid-upper 20s sitting still despite 30mph+ winds.

I am multitasking here on my gear. I have an old synthetic slumberjack bag in 20 and 0 degrees. I find that for almost everything the 20 and the fleece do me ok. The kids get the zero when we are out together, car camping. Both bags were stored improperly the entire time I had them, and so probably are no where near their ratings now.

I would prefer to upgrade all my gear to super cool lightest fantastic warmest stuff, but until I get the kids out of the house, it ain't gonna happen, so my piecemeal approach is what I have and what will have to work.

pat

 

[boom]

i like the western mountaineering alpinlite bag for its weight and sleep space.

but in a perfect world, i should have gone with a warmer bag. warmer than the 20. i sleep cold. i wear my merino and a knit hat.

i have slept in a puffy, but oddly it didnt seem to add much more warmth.

i want an additional bag. a synthetic..but going warmer will definately be heavier and bulkier. i'll prob stay with the same 20 degree bag.

 

[Scoot]

As far as I can tell the two biggest variables are: 1) how high of quality is the bag your getting?, and 2) are you a cold sleeper? For me, I'm a cold sleeper and last year I used a Big Agnes Crater 15 degree bag. When the temps dipped into the mid 20's I almost froze to death! The combo of a bag that is rated for temps that are much colder than one is actually comfortable at (something BA is known for) and me being a cold sleeper was a bad mix.

Personally, if I was to expect 15 degrees I'd get a very good bag (translation: cha-ching! $$$) and it'd be rated to 0. I expect to see mid to upper 20's for most of my hunts as the most likely low and I now have a 15 degree bag that's made by Western Mountaineering. I'm hoping that'll be plenty for me- most people have said it will be, even if I'm a cold sleeper. We'll see!

 

[burgerta]

Thanks for all the insight guys, good stuff! I think I may fit into the warm sleeper category. I am 5-11 265lbs so I also might need a bag with some extra girth. I am himm hawing about a BA Hog Park Series 20degree bag with insulated air core pad...6lbs is a ton compared to what it sounds like you guys typically use and I kinda hear that the BA bags are not as warm as some other brands when it comes to comparing temp ratings so I am nervous about pulling the trigger.
I dont mind paying the premium price if it really makes a difference, I probably should start looking at the higher end Brands for a bag with extra girth...

 

[mdog]

Some things that help with a lighter bag are: Stay hydrated. Should be peeing once or twice a night. Take along a gator-aid bottle for this. Have a spare base layer for sleeping DRY. Eat enough. Most hunters are in caloric deficit. A good pad. Lots of heat lost sleeping on cold ground.

I slept in a 30 degree bag with an outside temp down to 6 degrees last year using a puffy with a hood, balaclava, long underwear, socks and a bivy. Used a Z-lite pad and a Thermarest X-lite pad. Six nights and was comfortable.

 

[Scoot]

Even with you being a warmer sleeper, I think you're making a mistake going with that bag and pad if you expect temps to get to 15. It'll cost you a fair bit more, but at your size and with the temps you're talking about, I'd be looking at a regular length Western Mountaineering Badger on an Thermarest Neoair Xtherm pad. You'll definitely pay for it! However, the difference will be huge! I tried to get by with cheaper bags and pads and wanted to save money. In the end, I cost myself more by buying BA bags and selling them for less then I bought them for because they simply didn't cut it. There are lots of areas to save money, but your sleeping bag and pad isn't a great one IMO. I learned the hard way. Buy once, cry once. Good luck!

 

[burgerta]

Yeah I am glad I asked, I am going to take a look at the Badger...Thanks!

 

[AK Troutbum]

Some things that help with a lighter bag are: Stay hydrated. Should be peeing once or twice a night. Take along a gator-aid bottle for this. Have a spare base layer for sleeping DRY. Eat enough. Most hunters are in caloric deficit. A good pad. Lots of heat lost sleeping on cold ground.

Great advise here.

 

[Vance in AK]

I am himm hawing about a BA Hog Park Series 20degree bag with insulated air core pad...6lbs is a ton compared to what it sounds like you guys typically use and I kinda hear that the BA bags are not as warm as some other brands when it comes to comparing temp ratings so I am nervous about pulling the trigger.
...

My Wiggys Ultra LT (20*) in wide regular & BA wide long(24") Insulated Aircore come in under 6# so I'm not sure what you would be gaining...
That is without Wiggys awesome yet heavy compression bag. You know what your wiggys will do.
To answer your question, I almost always wear a light layer of polypro (don't have any morino yet) when in the bag to keep the bag cleaner & so I don't stick to it when flopping around. I keep a dry pair just for bed & occasionally change them out with my day pair to freshen up. Always socks as my feet get cold easy.

 

[burgerta]

Your right Vance, when it comes to synthetic bags my Wiggys may be a little bulky but its about the same weight as all the other manufacturers and it great quality. I am more or less focused on getting into a good backpackable sleep system, which I currently do not have, My wiggys bag is great stuff for float hunts or drop camp hunts but if a hunt includes a long trek or hiking hills the wiggys is just not what I would like to haul. At first I wanted to try and stick with a synthetic bag in case hunts got wet conditions etc. but I am starting to realize that there is not much to gain beyond what the wiggys bag does and more people than I expected use down with great success. So thanks to all your input I am starting to look at down bags that may meet my criteria. With that said I think I will plan to get into a 15degree bag and use a layer of merino and a puffy layer to supplement any colder than expected conditions if it were to get into silly cold conditions.

 

[desertcj]

I've been to Alaska, but I haven't hunted there yet...maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't consider anything else other than synthetic after spending a couple nights in a wet synthetic bag while it was snowing. No I didn't sleep very well, but I did sleep and I was warmer in my bag then when I woke up and started moving around. The whole time I was thinking to myself how glad I was that I didn't have a down bag and that I was wearing synthetic clothing. To answer your' original question, I will add whatever clothing layers that I brought with me in order to stay comfortable but I don't start off planning to wear them to bed.

 

[charvey9]

My previous bag for the past 5 years of camping and hunting has been the North Face Cat's Meow 20 degree. I lways had to wear additional clothes with this bag when the temperatures dropped below 30 degrees and just figured it was the norm. On a few nights last season, I was in my full gear curled up in the bag and still a little chilled. I've since learned that bag really was not rated very well, and more comparable to 30 degree bags in several tests I read. I just swapped it out for a Zpacks 20 degree which cut the weight of my bag in half, and if the information I've read is correct it should be a lot warmer. Since the Zpack bag is not a mummy bag, I may need to add a hood or hat to my sleep system but I don't think I ever really zipped up like mummy in my other bag anyway.

Ideally for me, I like to at least sleep in my base layers just because it is less that I have to put back on in the morning to get going. I would consider my additional layers as part of the sleep system as needed when the temp drops below 20.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

I spent one night in a cold and wet down bag...never again. If there's any chance my bag will end up wet, I am sticking with my heavy Wiggy's. If I fall into an icy river i know I can warm up quickly in my Wiggy's even there is no shelter around and no way to build a fire. Heavy? Oh yeah...bulky too but it might just save my butt. And plenty of guy use additional insulation and/or clothing to augment their sleep syst. Puffys, quilts, merino...it's all good. Just plan for the weather and be prepared for an entirely new plan in case everything goes sideways on ya.

 

[burgerta]

A lot of good knowledge and discussion from you guys have me refocused on what I really need from my sleep system. I did a little history search research and it seems a lot of hunters like the Slick Bag, so I started taking a harder look at the slick bag and I am really liking the thought behind its features and I can stay in my comfort zone with the synthetic insulation rather than down. I most likely will always have a puffy coat on a hunt and I usually will have a 2nd set of merino base layers as a reserve. With that being said I think a Wide 20 degree Slick Bag is what I am going with. I appreciate all of your input, I am way more confident now...

 

[jmelnik58]

I am also planning my first backcountry bivy hunt. Planning on Colorado second season rifle in the San Juan's. I started my sleep system with a BA encampment 15 and a q core. I also bought a liner that supposedly got me an additional 25 degrees. Taking me to -10. I first tested it out in a snowstorm in my backyard, Pittsburgh PA, in February. It was 38 degrees inside my tent. I made it thru the night but barely slept because I was fidgety and freezing. I tried it again two nights ago at 28 degrees, clear, no tent. I wore my merino base layer, fleece hat and fleece neck warmer. I froze my but off and was back inside in two hours. I returned it to REI today. I seriously considered a Western Mountaineering but chose to order a wiggy's instead. I'll let anyone that wants to know how it performs when I get it.