Equipment versus practice posts and Rifle practice/shooting

[Dobermann]

They all suck unless you are only using par times. I would suggest the CED 700.

Hi Form, I know you're usually able to back up strong statements like this with facts ... I've seen that PACT timers seem to be common; what do you see as the advantages of the CED 7000 over the PACT?

Genuine question, as I'm about to invest in one for training (both the drill in this thread, and handgun).

Cheers!

 

[Formidilosus]

Hi Form, I know you're usually able to back up strong statements like this with facts ... I've seen that PACT timers seem to be common; what do you see as the advantages of the CED 7000 over the PACT?

Genuine question, as I'm about to invest in one for training (both the drill in this thread, and handgun).

Cheers!

PACT’s are functional, however the buttonolagy/interface sucks. The CED 7000 menu is relatively clean and easy to use.

 

[Dobermann]

PACT’s are functional, however the buttonolagy/interface sucks. The CED 7000 menu is relatively clean and easy to use.

Legend - thanks. Bought and on the way.

 

[roymunson]

somehow just stumbled across this thread... Excellent stuff. Very intimidating.

anyone using heavy calibers and trying this?

 

[Moose83]

10/20 yesterday. Haven't shot for a while and could definitely tell. Anybody got any good references/pics of offhand positions I'm definitely struggling with this position. Also need to work on not compromising positions racing to beat the clock.

 

[stattus1]

Great post, thank for taking the time. Lots of good information here.

 

[longrange13]

@Formidilosus when you are shooting standing offhand at 100 yards at the 7” circle are you able to reduce your wobble zone enough to squeeze the trigger or are you timing the shot? Thus far it seems like my wobble standing is probably more like a 14” circle.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

@Formidilosus when you are shooting standing offhand at 100 yards at the 7” circle are you able to reduce your wobble zone enough to squeeze the trigger or are you timing the shot? Thus far it seems like my wobble standing is probably more like a 14” circle.

I’m certainly not Form but I shoot a ton of off hand. What is your non trigger hand/arm position like? I’m guessing you are grabbing too far forward on the stock and not utilizing your ribs/stomach/hip to stabilize the front arm?

It will feel awkward at first but you want to build a position where your front elbow is solidly into your body somewhere. This leads to sliding your support hand back under the magazine to obtain a proper position. Let me know if you’d like a photo of arm and hand position.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus when you are shooting standing offhand at 100 yards at the 7” circle are you able to reduce your wobble zone enough to squeeze the trigger or are you timing the shot? Thus far it seems like my wobble standing is probably more like a 14” circle.

In general I have about a 8-10” wobble zone offhand. Smooth consistent pressure on the trigger until it goes off. No timing.

 

[Moose83]

I’m certainly not Form but I shoot a ton of off hand. What is your non trigger hand/arm position like? I’m guessing you are grabbing too far forward on the stock and not utilizing your ribs/stomach/hip to stabilize the front arm?

It will feel awkward at first but you want to build a position where your front elbow is solidly into your body somewhere. This leads to sliding your support hand back under the magazine to obtain a proper position. Let me know if you’d like a photo of arm and hand position.

I wouldn't mind a pic if it's not to much trouble. I've been trying the squared up c grip stance that the gbrs guys and other cqb guys are pushing on YouTube with not very good results. My wobble zone is dismal... I'm thinking that kind of off hand stance is a cqb thing only

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I wouldn't mind a pic if it's not to much trouble. I've been trying the squared up c grip stance that the gbrs guys and other cqb guys are pushing on YouTube with not very good results. My wobble zone is dismal... I'm thinking that kind of off hand stance is a cqb thing only

Will do. I’ll try to get my 6 year old to take a picture tomorrow.

 

[Moose83]

Much obliged.

 

[Formidilosus]

I wouldn't mind a pic if it's not to much trouble. I've been trying the squared up c grip stance that the gbrs guys and other cqb guys are pushing on YouTube with not very good results. My wobble zone is dismal... I'm thinking that kind of off hand stance is a cqb thing only

The classic service rifle/shooting jacket off hand stance is more stable than the 3-gun stance and grip. It however sucks for recoil control, moving targets, or repeat shots.

I shoot thousands to one of the 3-gun/AR grip and stance versus an NRA stance. Therefore I shoot bolt guns the same.

 

[Moose83]

The classic service rifle/shooting jacket off hand stance is more stable than the 3-gun stance and grip. It however sucks for recoil control, moving targets, or repeat shots.

I shoot thousands to one of the 3-gun/AR grip and stance versus an NRA stance. Therefore I shoot bolt guns the same.

You wouldn't happen to have any pics of your preferred stance? I'm open to any and all suggestions to figure out how to make this work for me.

 

[id_jon]

D.F.A.T Kit (Dryfire, Focus, Adapter Training)

riflesonly.com

The DFAT system helped me ton for offhand. Being able to effectively dry fire at home and work on what positions reduce wobble is huge.

 

[DJL2]

I wouldn't mind a pic if it's not to much trouble. I've been trying the squared up c grip stance that the gbrs guys and other cqb guys are pushing on YouTube with not very good results. My wobble zone is dismal... I'm thinking that kind of off hand stance is a cqb thing only

It's great for driving the gun... and the guns stays pretty stable as long as you're doing so (either moving the gun to track/transition or shoot multiples). It's terrible for static positions and maximizing precision.

I've got little T-Rex arms...bracing my arm can be a challenge. On the old LCE, or something similar, I could use the ammo pouch as a rest for my elbow. You can do the same with a nalgene or similar if you run it up front. I've also slid my arm inside load carrying kit support it.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I wouldn't mind a pic if it's not to much trouble. I've been trying the squared up c grip stance that the gbrs guys and other cqb guys are pushing on YouTube with not very good results. My wobble zone is dismal... I'm thinking that kind of off hand stance is a cqb thing only

This is what works for me. Thousands of off hand kills on small game and quite a bit on large game. Many many more shots on targets practicing off hand.

I am comfortable out to 200 yards with my Tikkas and Sakos on 8” targets. I am comfortable on rabbits and ground squirrels/p dogs out to 150 yards sometimes stretching it a bit further.

Elbow tight into hip/belly/ribs. Hand under magazine/trigger guard with support fingers pointing towards target. Practice building this stance a bunch and modify to what works for you if needed. Will feel awkward at first. Eventually it will become muscle memory. It’s very stable with your entire arm and hand supporting the rifle via your hip. Exhale and hold, always come down into your target with the reticle , don’t rise up into the target.

Did I mention practice? Practice building the stance and getting comfortable hundreds of times before even trying to shoot. Put an 8” target out at 100 yards and practice stance, breathing, coming down into target with reticle, and holding on the target for 3-4 seconds.

Let me know how it goes.

 

[grfox92]

This is what works for me. Thousands of off hand kills on small game and quite a bit on large game. Many many more shots on targets practicing off hand.

I am comfortable out to 200 yards with my Tikkas and Sakos on 8” targets. I am comfortable on rabbits and ground squirrels/p dogs out to 150 yards sometimes stretching it a bit further.

Elbow tight into hip/belly/ribs. Hand under magazine/trigger guard with support fingers pointing towards target. Practice building this stance a bunch and modify to what works for you if needed. Will feel awkward at first. Eventually it will become muscle memory. It’s very stable with your entire arm and hand supporting the rifle via your hip. Exhale and hold, always come down into your target with the reticle , don’t rise up into the target.

Did I mention practice? Practice building the stance and getting comfortable hundreds of times before even trying to shoot. Put an 8” target out at 100 yards and practice stance, breathing, coming down into target with reticle, and holding on the target for 3-4 seconds.

Let me know how it goes.

View attachment 632994

My uncle tought me that position when I was 12 years old. Never seen anyone else use it.

Sent from my SM-G990U2 using Tapatalk

 

[Formidilosus]

This is how I shoot static offhand-




This isn’t a picture perfect example. This is a screen shot of a video while doing the hunting rifle drill.

 

[Marshfly]

The

This is how I shoot static offhand-

View attachment 633013

The support system in this image is quite a bit more robust than the one displayed above in the orange shirt. LOL.