Fasted exercise and fat loss

[Coach Chris]

 

[Clarktar]

Yep. Basically just consume less calories than you burn.... Or more than you burn depending on goal. Simple budget. Deficit or excess.

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[Vandy321]

He's really hung up on energy expenditure.

Don't gloss over the fact that he clearly admitted (albeit briefly) that fasted exercise is proven to increase fat oxidation over fed exercise.

Afterall, that's the goal of most fasted cardio, no?

 

[5MilesBack]

I haven't watched Survivor in years, but just look at all the folks that stayed to the end versus how they started. Most of them claim to have lost quite a bit of weight and they aren't even doing much exercise. On an elk hunt I fast every day at least from the afternoon or evening before until lunch time the next day. And there's plenty of exercise from early that morning through the day. I average 1lb loss per day over the course of a month long season, but generally only hunt ~20 days. That kind of fasting is pretty normal for me though, even at home. I rarely eat breakfast, so two good meals a day at home.......whereas hunting it may only be one good meal a day. Large calorie deficit plus lots of exercise = weight loss.

 

[Larry Bartlett]

You don't need to fast but a negative calorie balance coupled with increased overload and cardio is effective and safe. Our hunt studies focused on energy expenditure and metabolic adaptations. The jest is our participants operated in negative energy balance of roughly 50% for 7-10 days. Average body fat loss was 4-6 lbs eating roughly 2100 cals per day while expenditure (demand) was roughly 4300 cals/day. The resulting metabolic changes were most inspiring, including liver health improvements, reduced bad cholesterol, reduction in visceral fat, and preservation of skeletal muscle. Also one recent study focused on muscle adaptations and we used biopsy method of analysis. We learned that Mi-206 was one of the molecular MiRNAs that were exponentially increased, which is one of the mechanisms responsible for adapting slow-twitch muscle phenotype and burning fat as fuel.

Alaska backcountry expeditionary hunting promotes rapid improvements in metabolic biomarkers in healthy males and females

We have previously reported negative energy balance and health benefits during an Alaska backcountry expeditionary hunting (ABEH) immersion in two males. The purpose of our present study was to increase the number of participants, include females, and ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Clarktar]

You don't need to fast but a negative calorie balance coupled with increased overload and cardio is effective and safe. Our hunt studies focused on energy expenditure and metabolic adaptations. The jest is our participants operated in negative energy balance of roughly 50% for 7-10 days. Average body fat loss was 4-6 lbs eating roughly 2100 cals per day while expenditure (demand) was roughly 4300 cals/day. The resulting metabolic changes were most inspiring, including liver health improvements, reduced bad cholesterol, reduction in visceral fat, and preservation of skeletal muscle. Also one recent study focused on muscle adaptations and we used biopsy method of analysis. We learned that Mi-206 was one of the molecular MiRNAs that were exponentially increased, which is one of the mechanisms responsible for adapting slow-twitch muscle phenotype and burning fat as fuel.

Alaska backcountry expeditionary hunting promotes rapid improvements in metabolic biomarkers in healthy males and females

We have previously reported negative energy balance and health benefits during an Alaska backcountry expeditionary hunting (ABEH) immersion in two males. The purpose of our present study was to increase the number of participants, include females, and ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Minimus smoothies for the win.

It's amazing how even a small caloric deficit compounds over time. Like 100-200 calories small. In my experience my body responded similar to a bank account experiencing compound annual growth rate.

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[P Carter]

Isn’t the point of fasted low intensity workouts is to maximize the body’s ability to use fat as fuel—aerobic metabolism pathway—not to boost weight loss or fat loss?

 

[Vandy321]

Isn’t the point of fasted low intensity workouts is to maximize the body’s ability to use fat as fuel—aerobic metabolism pathway—not to boost weight loss or fat loss?

I've always know it as purely to drop body fat %...it was the only way I could get down into the single digits BF and keep me weight up, back when that mattered to me. Had no desire back then to use fat as fuel, I was eating 400+ grams of carbs/day.

 

[5MilesBack]

Isn’t the point of fasted low intensity workouts is to maximize the body’s ability to use fat as fuel—aerobic metabolism pathway—not to boost weight loss or fat loss?

If your body is using that fat as fuel, then shouldn't it be depleting itself as it's used, thereby creating both weight and fat loss?

 

[Wrench]

I have nothing to add other than I did a 40 day fast once upon a time and never, ever, ever felt better. Never low on energy, amazing mental clarity and weight loss wasn't a bad thing.

 

[Larry Bartlett]

Yes but "weight" loss is an indicator and not definitive because if you lost fat but gained muscle, how much weight loss you'd see on scales would be incomplete data. But if you knew how much fat you lost and also how much muscle you gained, you'd see a wider gap in numbers and have a better idea of true changes. But you'd need at least a digital impedance analyzer (DIA) to capture what is really happening in that spectrum.

This year's hunt I started with a body weight of 190.6 and finished at 190.2. The DIA showed I lost 4 pounds of fat and gained nearly 5 lbs of muscle mass.

small edit after putting on my reading glasses and locating my DIA scan results: starting 192.8 lbs and ending 192.0 respectively.

 

[Vandy321]

Yes but "weight" loss is an indicator and not definitive because if you lost fat but gained muscle, how much weight loss you'd see on scales would be incomplete data. But if you knew how much fat you lost and also how much muscle you gained, you'd see a wider gap in numbers and have a better idea of true changes. But you'd need at least a digital impedance analyzer (DIA) to capture what is really happening in that spectrum.

This year's hunt I started with a body weight of 190.6 and finished at 190.2. The DIA showed I lost 4 pounds of fat and gained nearly 5 lbs of muscle mass.

You gained 5lbs of muscle on a hunt? Not sure thats even scientificaly possible...most intermediate/advanced lifters are gaining a max of 1-2# of pure muscle per month, and thats in lab studies...gym, pre/post workout nutrition, sleep, etc dialed in, etc etc.

 

[P Carter]

If your body is using that fat as fuel, then shouldn't it be depleting itself as it's used, thereby creating both weight and fat loss?

Depends on how much you eat! If you do a fasted, long, low intensity workout and then eat a dozen cookies, your body’s going to restore its glycogen stores and then store the extra glucose as fat. So you can still be aerobically fit and have extra fat, depending on how many calories you consume, when, and what type. (Again, I think.)

 

[Larry Bartlett]

Vandy, i know it's hard to believe, but it is scientifically possible. What makes muscle grow is overload stimulus and adequate protein/amino acid intake of at least 0.8 gm/kg of body weight per day, even with negative energy balance (consuming 50% of the energy expended.) We can replicate these results without a 3-month gym routine by simply float draggin' in the backcountry for 10 days.

Here's the proof by way of my DIA data for that event.

 

[V2Pnutrition]

He's really hung up on energy expenditure.

Don't gloss over the fact that he clearly admitted (albeit briefly) that fasted exercise is proven to increase fat oxidation over fed exercise.

Afterall, that's the goal of most fasted cardio, no?

That's fat oxidation of consumed fat...not stored fat. And, that's the premise many folks are under when doing exercise fasted- that they're burning fat stored.

The gentleman in the video is Layne Norton. I won't bore you with background or credentials because you probably don't care- and who would blame you? But, in his defense, he does clarify the same point I mention here in other videos/posts/literature, etc..

 

[Vandy321]

That's fat oxidation of consumed fat...not stored fat. And, that's the premise many folks are under when doing exercise fasted- that they're burning fat stored.

The gentleman in the video is Layne Norton. I won't bore you with background or credentials because you probably don't care- and who would blame you? But, in his defense, he does clarify the same point I mention here in other videos/posts/literature, etc..

Lane is paid to push his sups, diet plans and fitness routines, it's a business. There is plenty of science out there that fasted low intensity cardio burns fat better than fed.

He claims it causes the body to consume less calories per day but ignores the fact that lost doing fasted training are doing cardio fasted and then lifting heavy a other time in the day, at least I do. Heavy squats will more than make up for a slight dip in metabolism of fasted cardio.

You state consumed fat cs stored, but then please explain how eating high protein, extremely high carb and extremely low fat, I was able to cut down to 7% range with fasted cardio and no decrease in caloric intake, eating very little fat? If I'm not eating it, what am I burning during cardio, it certainly wasn't muscle mass.

Lane makes a living off of his bro science.

 

[V2Pnutrition]

Lane is paid to push his sups, diet plans and fitness routines, it's a business. There is plenty of science out there that fasted low intensity cardio burns fat better than fed.

He claims it causes the body to consume less calories per day but ignores the fact that lost doing fasted training are doing cardio fasted and then lifting heavy a other time in the day, at least I do. Heavy squats will more than make up for a slight dip in metabolism of fasted cardio.

You state consumed fat cs stored, but then please explain how eating high protein, extremely high carb and extremely low fat, I was able to cut down to 7% range with fasted cardio and no decrease in caloric intake, eating very little fat? If I'm not eating it, what am I burning during cardio, it certainly wasn't muscle mass.

Lane makes a living off of his bro science.

I never said (all) consumed fat is stored. What I said was "fat oxidation CAN be from consumed fat...not always stored fat as many people believe...". (Yes, the verbatim quote was "that's fat oxidation of consumed fat...not stored fat...". That was in direct reference to Layne's video...not every potential scenario that exists in the world of fat loss.)

There are many different scenarios in nutrition as fueling is dynamic (hence why caloric intake is king in the world of fat loss and gain).

Thanks for your comment and giving me the chance to clarify.

 

[bigW]

...I never understood that people buy expensive overprized special food to loose weight ... just get the calorie balance right (means usually eat less, with focus on balance and quality food) and use the savings for some archery goodies

 

[Larry Bartlett]

To obtain energy from consumed fat, triglycerides must first be broken down by hydrolysis into their two principal components, fatty acids and glycerol. This process, called lipolysis, takes place in the cytoplasm. The resulting fatty acids are oxidized by β-oxidation into acetyl CoA, which is used by the Krebs cycle.

 

[bigW]

To obtain energy from consumed fat, triglycerides must first be broken down by hydrolysis into their two principal components, fatty acids and glycerol. This process, called lipolysis, takes place in the cytoplasm. The resulting fatty acids are oxidized by β-oxidation into acetyl CoA, which is used by the Krebs cycle.

...nice paste and copy work