Having a tough time with Weatherby Backcountry 2.0 Ti in .280 Ackley...

[THellURider]

Bought this a while ago and finally got around to trying to figure out what ammo it likes and get it ready for Kodiak next year.

It's got a Vortex LHT 4.5-22 in Talley LW rings.

Shot off a solid bench with a bagged rear.

I had to beg, borrow and steal to find ammo for it. I don't reload any longer and don't want to try.

I've tried 3 factory loads. Only 2 of them being a viable bullet for my use case but until I find something that shoots I guess it doesn't matter.

1. Nosler 160gr Accubond - Avg 3-shot group - 1.7"
2. Federal 155gr Terminal Ascent - Avg 3-shot group - 1.5"
3. Nosler Ballistic Tip - Avg Group (only had 5 rounds) - 2.3"

This is the first ultra LW rifle I've owned. I shoot PRS, I shoot a lot. I can shoot a sub-MOA gun to it's potential but this has me a bit flumuxed.

Anyone have similar experience?

What ammo have you found is good in this caliber or in this rifle?

 

[WKR]

With those results, my guess is you would probably have to handload to get better groups, you can keep on trying other factory loads, maybe some monolithic like barnes or hornady outfitter but who knows if you will have better results. Looks like that rifle doesn't like a lot of jump and if you handloaded you could get closer to the lands...this is all speculation so take it as you will

 

[WeiserBucks]

You might want to try a different scope to eliminate a potential error in the whole system. If it still doesn't shoot to your satisfaction send it back.

 

[wyosteve]

Does Weatherby offer their ammo for it? If so, I’d give that a try since it’s likely what they use to test fire it. I have a Backcountry 2.0 Ti in 6.5 RPM and it shoots their ammo well.

 

[eamyrick]

The Terminal Assent shows some promise. You don’t really have enough data from 3 groups to form much of a conclusion but the groups seem to be generally in the same spot. I’d make sure everything is torqued down correctly, work on some dry fire with the specific rifle (just to get used to it over your PRS setup) and I’m betting you will find it has acceptable hunting accuracy. Factory ammo is a PITA for no good reason some time which is why both of my main hunting rifles are 30-06. I had a custom that shot Hendershots custom ammo amazing and for the second case they switched to Lapua Brass and my rifle hated it. All other components the same. I’d consider having them load you up some options if you want to get the most out of the rifle.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

An lht in Talley rings is a recipe for losing zero. At the very least, mount a known good scope in a reliable mounting system and try again just to isolate variables, because it's also possible the rifle just isn't that accurate.

 

[sambo3006]

John Barsness has written over on 24hourcampfire about light weight rifles sometimes being very finicky about how the forend is supported when shooting from a bench.
Some other thoughts: Is the barrel free floated? If so, it might benefit from some forend pressure. If it has a forend pressure pad, it might benefit from free floating. Also, is it factory bedded or have you bedded it?
I would also try a more robust ring and base setup than the Talley one piece. I've had generally good luck with them but I have a full custom that usually shoots better than half inch at 100 yards that has suddenly started shooting 1.5" or more with a wandering zero. I'm going to switch out to Hawkins hybrid rings, and if that fails, switch out the scope. As was previously mentioned, put another scope on it and try. It sounds like you are an experienced shooter so I bet you'll figure it out. Best of luck!
Sam

 

[SDHNTR]

I had a Wby LW years ago and groups were about like that. Never could get acceptable accuracy. And after shot 3, forget it. Sold it. While it may not be the source of your woes, I also think a better scope and mount system would improve the reliability of your rig.

 

[BjornF16]

I had same issue with the steel Backcountry 2.0 in 280 AI. Removed barreled action from stock and was horrified at their “bedding” job…a dollop of compound dripped into lug recess.

Took it to my local GS who did a proper bedding.

Shot much better afterwards, but that was also with hand loads (both pre and post GS work).

I moved that gun down the road after embracing the .223/.22CM/6CM bandwagon

 

[THellURider]

Appreciate everyone's feedback thus far.

I'm a bit surprised everyone is bagging on this scope... This is a pretty nice scope. Is there something I don't know? I have 2.

What rings does everyone suggest that stick to the LW theme of this rifle? Based on an initial look, doesn't seem like the Hawkins rings suggested above exist for the Weatherby footprint.

Weatherby has an accuracy guarantee - if you send it in and it performs they charge you $200. Given the current price of ammo, that seems like the right move for me rather than continue to F with it.

 

[THellURider]

I had same issue with the steel Backcountry 2.0 in 280 AI. Removed barreled action from stock and was horrified at their “bedding” job…a dollop of compound dripped into lug recess.

Took it to my local GS who did a proper bedding.

Shot much better afterwards, but that was also with hand loads (both pre and post GS work).

I moved that gun down the road after embracing the .223/.22CM/6CM bandwagon

That's disheartening to read.

 

[BjornF16]

That's disheartening to read.

My GS said it was a seesaw with a high spot behind lug.

I was VERY disappointed.

That said, it shot fine afterwards. I would have kept it but I've moved to lesser recoil for my ranges of hunting

 

[GetWestern]

You could try some match ammo just to see if it groups better, if it doesn’t I’d send it back.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

I'm a bit surprised everyone is bagging on this scope...

Vortex Razor HD LHT 4.5-22x50mm Field Eval

Ryan Avery asked if I would review this scope in the same vein as the Meopta Optika 6 and Tanget Theta evaluations and I agreed. I get queried about these scopes almost as much as any, and even though I have seen poor performance from the prior LHT’s, this is a different design and will be...

rokslide.com

Vortex Razer GIII 6-36x56mm Field Evaluation

This is a field evaluation of a Vortex Razor Gen III 6-36x56mm scope. This scope was brought to me from Ryan Avery for an evaluation, @Justin Crossley had it first. The ammunition used was Hornady Black 168gr AMAX that was purchased by Ryan. The 30 round proof group was just over 1.3 MOA. The...

rokslide.com

vortex hasn't really figured out zero retention, at all.

 

[BjornF16]

I'm a bit surprised everyone is bagging on this scope... This is a pretty nice scope. Is there something I don't know? I have 2.

Do yourself a favor and read all these threads in the Long Range Hunting subforum for Rifle Scope Evaluations.

Here is the Q&A for it

Vortex Razor HD LHT 4.5-22x50mm Q&A

Questions and answers for the Vortex Razor HD LHT 4.5-22x50mm field eval- Here Edit to make this the Q&A thread. The eval is now it’s own thread.

rokslide.com

 

[wyosteve]

Fwiw, I went with the Leupold Backcountry base/ring set. Bottom of rings are milled into the base. Not as light as Talleys, but the rings won't move. I figured I saved enough weight on the rifle, a couple extra ounces on the base/rings wouldn't hurt.

 

[nobody]

I'm a bit surprised everyone is bagging on this scope... This is a pretty nice scope. Is there something I don't know? I have 2.

What rings does everyone suggest that stick to the LW theme of this rifle? Based on an initial look, doesn't seem like the Hawkins rings suggested above exist for the Weatherby footprint.

@ResearchinStuff and @BjornF16 beat me to it, but read those field evaluations with an open mind. Talley LW rings have a reputation of being out of round and of splitting our between the two mounting screws. Here is the link to the subforum with all the scope field evaluations that have been conducted thus far:

https://rokslide.com/forums/forums/rifle-scope-field-evaluations.133/

At the end of the day, the "bells and whistles" don't matter. Glass doesn't matter, FFP reticles don't matter, illumination doesn't matter. Nothing matters if the scope won't track or hold zero. Unfortunately there's lots of info to support that the LHT will do everything you need it to EXCEPT track and hold zero, with an emphasis on the second part of that statement.

As far as a scope mounting platform goes, single piece picatinny rail and either Nightforce or Seekins rings get the nod around here. Not worth saving a couple of ounces if it compromises performance or durability of your rifle system. The faster you (hypothetical YOU, not a specific YOU OP) stop focusing on lightweight and start placing a precedence on performance the better off you'll be. It's better to carry a 9lb rifle setup that performs the way you need it to every single time rather than carrying a 7lb rifle setup with a questionable reputation for performance. What's your peace of mind worth?

What optic to you use for PRS out of curiosity? If you're sponsored by Vortex then... well... sorry to burst your bubble on their performance. But if you're not, we (meaning the WKR community) would HIGHLY recommend going the direction of an optic that has been proven. Again, lightweight does you no good if it doesn't function. If you spend some time here, you'll notice there's a pattern for known performers under hard and heavy use situations: Nightforce, Trijicon, and SWFA.

Outside of the optic, I bet a dozen Krispy Kream donuts that rifle isn't free floated. My brother has a Vanguard chambered in 270 Win he picked up a few years ago, and it always shot pretty meh in the original configuration (typical Weatherby stock lines with the Monte Carlo cheek riser and a forend pressure point). Then, fairly recently, we replaced the stock with one that allowed for the barrel to free float. Voila, first outing after that it performed significantly better and the groups tightened up and consistency seemed to improve. I'm sure it'll continue to help him out as we shoot more this summer and get him stretched out at distance, as the new stock also has improved ergonomics. FWIW, the replacement was just a cheap Bell and Carlson, but it didn't cost much and has made a difference for sure.

Good luck with the rifle, and please take what we are telling you for what it's meant to be. We truly are just trying to help out, as there's nothing more frustrating than a rifle that won't shoot as well as you can.

 

[SDHNTR]

Appreciate everyone's feedback thus far.

I'm a bit surprised everyone is bagging on this scope... This is a pretty nice scope. Is there something I don't know? I have 2.

Unfortunately yes. Just do some reading as others have posted above. Vortex spends their money on marketing. They’d rather attempt to convince you they make a good scope rather than putting their money into actually making a good scope. Buy a Nightforce or Trijicon, or SWFA if money is tight. Since Hawkins doesn’t work for you, install a well bedded Picatinny rail with quality rings. If you don’t want to spend time researching details, just buy a NIghtforce rail with their Extreme Duty titanium ultralight rings. Bombproof. But there are lots of other good options too, just don’t go cheap. The mounting system is the weakest link and the source of many rifle problems. Spend money here and do it right. Degrease all screws, loctite and proper torque applied with a torque driver. Level rifle to the earth and true scope reticle with a plumb Bob.

It’s very easy to see if your gun has a bedding problem. Loosen the action screws until finger loose. Then see if there is any front to back see saw motion to the receiver in the stock. Tighten the screws barely snug and then feel the barrel and stock interface with your fingertips as you fully tighten the front screw. Did you feel the barrel move as you tightened the screw. If any perceptible movement, you have a bedding issue.

Shoot their ammo. If it won’t meet their guarantee with their ammo like they say it will, send it back.

 

[yfarm]

Son has Steel Backcountry with Talley LW and Leupold VX5. Shoots Nosler partition 160 or Berger hybrid 168 equally well, MOA at 300 yds. Dislikes the fit of the stock. Consider a test load kit from Copper Creek if reloading is not an option.

 

[THellURider]

@ResearchinStuff and @BjornF16 beat me to it, but read those field evaluations with an open mind. Talley LW rings have a reputation of being out of round and of splitting our between the two mounting screws. Here is the link to the subforum with all the scope field evaluations that have been conducted thus far:

https://rokslide.com/forums/forums/rifle-scope-field-evaluations.133/

At the end of the day, the "bells and whistles" don't matter. Glass doesn't matter, FFP reticles don't matter, illumination doesn't matter. Nothing matters if the scope won't track or hold zero. Unfortunately there's lots of info to support that the LHT will do everything you need it to EXCEPT track and hold zero, with an emphasis on the second part of that statement.

As far as a scope mounting platform goes, single piece picatinny rail and either Nightforce or Seekins rings get the nod around here. Not worth saving a couple of ounces if it compromises performance or durability of your rifle system. The faster you (hypothetical YOU, not a specific YOU OP) stop focusing on lightweight and start placing a precedence on performance the better off you'll be. It's better to carry a 9lb rifle setup that performs the way you need it to every single time rather than carrying a 7lb rifle setup with a questionable reputation for performance. What's your peace of mind worth?

What optic to you use for PRS out of curiosity? If you're sponsored by Vortex then... well... sorry to burst your bubble on their performance. But if you're not, we (meaning the WKR community) would HIGHLY recommend going the direction of an optic that has been proven. Again, lightweight does you no good if it doesn't function. If you spend some time here, you'll notice there's a pattern for known performers under hard and heavy use situations: Nightforce, Trijicon, and SWFA.

Outside of the optic, I bet a dozen Krispy Kream donuts that rifle isn't free floated. My brother has a Vanguard chambered in 270 Win he picked up a few years ago, and it always shot pretty meh in the original configuration (typical Weatherby stock lines with the Monte Carlo cheek riser and a forend pressure point). Then, fairly recently, we replaced the stock with one that allowed for the barrel to free float. Voila, first outing after that it performed significantly better and the groups tightened up and consistency seemed to improve. I'm sure it'll continue to help him out as we shoot more this summer and get him stretched out at distance, as the new stock also has improved ergonomics. FWIW, the replacement was just a cheap Bell and Carlson, but it didn't cost much and has made a difference for sure.

Good luck with the rifle, and please take what we are telling you for what it's meant to be. We truly are just trying to help out, as there's nothing more frustrating than a rifle that won't shoot as well as you can.

I'm not sponsored by them at all but I my PRS rifle has a Razor HD on it, and I have a 1-10x LPVO as well. I've had nothing but excellent performance on them.

The LHT FFP is nearly the perfect hunting scope on paper. I've got 2 now but admittedly haven't put a ton of rounds on them.

I appreciate everyone's feedback. I've initiated an RMA with Weatherby and will let them sort this out. If it works when I get it back from them it'll be well worth the $200. I'd spend far more than that in time, ammo and parts to figure this out during a time when this ammo, in particular, is super scarce.

In the meantime, I'll look into new rings and potentially a new scope.