Loo.wii
WKR
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2022
- Messages
- 515
Here and on quite a few other public forums I've observed hostility towards the reintroduction of wolves in CO. Call me ignorant or dumb but I really dont understand the hate. I can understand the " THESE DENVER LIBTARDS WHO KNOW NOTHING GOT TO VOTE ON BLAHBLAH BLAH." perspective, but other than that I don't think its a net negative to the ecosystem, the state, ranchers, or hunters. Now I understand that there may be an argument that broadly suggests that "they're the wrong wolves" but i am not educated enough on the ecology and the actual impact of different wolf sub species on wild life or the ecosystem. If i am not mistaken, I think ranchers are reimbursed for livestock killed by wolves. If this is the case is there really a cost to the re introduction.
In the hunting perspective I also Don't think that reintroduction is negative. Multiple states have healthy wolf populations and still have healthy game populations. I imagine that a good wolf population would solve the issue of private land owners with massive swaths of land essentially having a monopoly on elk and deer in an area and capitalizing on it by charging ridiculous access fees. Broadly I think that predation by wolves on elk and deer will cause these animals to migrate in ways that are consistent with their historic patters of movement, effectively disbursing them in a way that is beneficial to your average public land hunter.
All that being said. While we are at it we should also reintroduce grizzlies to their historic range and buffalos too.
Im sure my opinion will get hated on but i hope this spurs a productive conversation that conveys nuances that I may not be aware of.
Edit.
Getting stabbed with a rusty blade by a gizz in the middle of the woods is better than getting mauled by a crack head in downtown Denver.
EDIT 2
ill add this to both sides of the thread.
I'll try to make this short. As I mentioned in my original comment, I am not an expert so I a speaking broadly when I share my opinions and perspectives. I didn't expect this thread to blowup as much as it did, and it really did show me the good, bad and ugly of the Rokslide community which i am very fond of. That being said, I didn't have the time to go through and read every article linked or dive into the depths of the internet to find what there was.
To me the most compelling parts of the anti wolf argument stem from the perspective that a wolf is a human competition for food. Taking this idea and running with it a bit more, i would estimate that the people who share this perspective use or plan to use or would like to use hunting as their primary source of meat. So maintaining this logic, why would you introduce competition that is quite literally taking food off of your plate? In most cases the data reflects that when wolves come into an area hunter success goes down.
This argument alone has had a major influence on my opinion.
In addition to the aforementioned, the anecdotes shared by those of you who are closer to the ranching community about the ineffectiveness of the "reimbursement" programs in various states opened my eyes quite a bit. In hindsight it should have been obvious because having worked for the gov in various capacities I personally know that getting what you need when you need it is like banging your head against a brick wall. These anecdotes shared the fact that cows grazing on public land aren't baby sat throughout the season and so a rancher might be down X number of animals and not know it for weeks of months, making it even more difficult to prove to the governing parties that an animal was a victim of predation.
The next issue would be the seemingly shady way that the wolves were introduced in CO. particularly the fact that there very likely were already wolves in the state and the state felt it necessary to add more instead of allowing wolves to continue to naturally filter south as they likely wood. The fact that there is NO management plan for them seems indicative that there is no desire to allow harvesting of wolves in CO ever.
After stewing on it I fall into the slightly anti wolf crowd. Though I am not in favor of the method or means of (re)introduction. I don't think wolves are completely terrible. I think it would have been better to allow them to continue to trickle into CO and implement a robust managment plan that takes into account multiple perspectives.
That being said I appreciate the love and hate that i got from the members here. The next pot I want to stir why is there so much hate for adult onset hunters among the saltier members.
P.s. I was asked and prodded about my signature. Its a joke that plays on 2 things, one being the fact that I am almost certainly the only Haitian born person on this site. On the other hand I knew from the second I made my account I knew there would be very little overlap in what I and most of the members here agree on besides hunting = good. There are some here who can't take a joke but thats okay.
I got alot out of this discussion.
Theres so much more to unpack but I have to go do nerd things now.
YES!! SHORT !!
In the hunting perspective I also Don't think that reintroduction is negative. Multiple states have healthy wolf populations and still have healthy game populations. I imagine that a good wolf population would solve the issue of private land owners with massive swaths of land essentially having a monopoly on elk and deer in an area and capitalizing on it by charging ridiculous access fees. Broadly I think that predation by wolves on elk and deer will cause these animals to migrate in ways that are consistent with their historic patters of movement, effectively disbursing them in a way that is beneficial to your average public land hunter.
All that being said. While we are at it we should also reintroduce grizzlies to their historic range and buffalos too.
Im sure my opinion will get hated on but i hope this spurs a productive conversation that conveys nuances that I may not be aware of.
Edit.
Getting stabbed with a rusty blade by a gizz in the middle of the woods is better than getting mauled by a crack head in downtown Denver.
EDIT 2
ill add this to both sides of the thread.
I'll try to make this short. As I mentioned in my original comment, I am not an expert so I a speaking broadly when I share my opinions and perspectives. I didn't expect this thread to blowup as much as it did, and it really did show me the good, bad and ugly of the Rokslide community which i am very fond of. That being said, I didn't have the time to go through and read every article linked or dive into the depths of the internet to find what there was.
To me the most compelling parts of the anti wolf argument stem from the perspective that a wolf is a human competition for food. Taking this idea and running with it a bit more, i would estimate that the people who share this perspective use or plan to use or would like to use hunting as their primary source of meat. So maintaining this logic, why would you introduce competition that is quite literally taking food off of your plate? In most cases the data reflects that when wolves come into an area hunter success goes down.
This argument alone has had a major influence on my opinion.
In addition to the aforementioned, the anecdotes shared by those of you who are closer to the ranching community about the ineffectiveness of the "reimbursement" programs in various states opened my eyes quite a bit. In hindsight it should have been obvious because having worked for the gov in various capacities I personally know that getting what you need when you need it is like banging your head against a brick wall. These anecdotes shared the fact that cows grazing on public land aren't baby sat throughout the season and so a rancher might be down X number of animals and not know it for weeks of months, making it even more difficult to prove to the governing parties that an animal was a victim of predation.
The next issue would be the seemingly shady way that the wolves were introduced in CO. particularly the fact that there very likely were already wolves in the state and the state felt it necessary to add more instead of allowing wolves to continue to naturally filter south as they likely wood. The fact that there is NO management plan for them seems indicative that there is no desire to allow harvesting of wolves in CO ever.
After stewing on it I fall into the slightly anti wolf crowd. Though I am not in favor of the method or means of (re)introduction. I don't think wolves are completely terrible. I think it would have been better to allow them to continue to trickle into CO and implement a robust managment plan that takes into account multiple perspectives.
That being said I appreciate the love and hate that i got from the members here. The next pot I want to stir why is there so much hate for adult onset hunters among the saltier members.
P.s. I was asked and prodded about my signature. Its a joke that plays on 2 things, one being the fact that I am almost certainly the only Haitian born person on this site. On the other hand I knew from the second I made my account I knew there would be very little overlap in what I and most of the members here agree on besides hunting = good. There are some here who can't take a joke but thats okay.
I got alot out of this discussion.
Theres so much more to unpack but I have to go do nerd things now.
YES!! SHORT !!
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