Question as to inconsistent OAL on loads

[WTNUT]

If the CBTO is 3.965", what is the cartridge OAL? They seem to be kind of long. Do you mean 2.965"?

Correct I can’t zero my calibers and that is the measurement with the particular comparator I use. The overall length of the cartridge is darn close to what the Barnes Manual says and fits in the magazine. Not at home so I don’t have access to my notes.


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[Okie_Poke]

I am using ADG brass and Barnes LRX bullets.

When I seat the bullets I am getting up to .005 difference in an overall length. I think this is due to differences in components. Like last night I am sure when I switched to a new box of bullets it changed the overall length and I adjusted the seating die.

I don't have any experience with LRX bullets specifically. But I often see different lots of bullets seat at different CBTO lengths. Sometimes the diffeence is slight, but I've seen it be fairly pronounced before. I don't usually see that much variation in CBTO length within the same lot of bullets, but it's usually greater with hunting bullets than with match bullets and I don't recall offhand what my CBTO variation was the last time I loaded Barnes. bullets.

Usually, I continue to seat the new lot of bullets using the same die setting I was using before. However, when I get a new lot of bullets, I always measure at what CBTO the new lot is hitting the lands and make sure the "jump" when I seat the new bulles with the old setting is somewhere in the same ballpark as the jump I had before. I also measure COAL and make sure I'm not going to have magazine length interference. I don't try to keep the jump exactly the same from lot to lot, I'm just paranoid and want to make sure I dont' inadvertently jam the new bullets into the lands or anything (I usuallly seat hunting bullets 0.50" or more off the lands, so this shouldn't be a problem, but I'm a bit paranoid).

I think it's wise to seperate the two "groupings" of CBTO lengths you're seeing, at least initially. You wont' know whether they'll shoot differently from each other until you test them. I generally assume a new lot of bullets may shoot to a (often slightly) different POI than an old lot until proven otherwise. Since you're shooting LRXs, I'm assuming you're wanting these to perform at some distance, and so I'd test them at the longest distance you have access to shoot at and at which you feel confident that you are not the main cause of disperison.

I agree with others who've said to check your seating stem. It's quick and easy to do for peach of mind if nothing esle. And, if the bullet is bottoming out in the stem, it's an easy fix. I haven't had a problem with Redding stems and any hunting bullet, but I've not played with LRX bullets either.

 

[WTNUT]

I am bumping this up because I figured out what the problem was, and it may help someone in the future. I was loading Barnes LRX bullets. I am loading a compressed load, slightly but still compressed. I had a few bullets really stick in the stem. Called Redding, they said the competition seating die should not be used with compressed load. No need to elaborate further. Then they said Barnes copper bullet were prone to stick a little period.

As I looked closer, slowed down, and went very slow it became apparent that the issue was not the die seating some bullets deeper than others. In stead on some of the bullets the stem was sticking just enough to pull the bullet out 5/1000 or so.

I took lapping compound smoothed out the stem, then went very gentle when removing the bullet down and out of the die. It improved 100 percent. Loading 40 tonight and all good.


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[SDHNTR]

I am using whatever came with the Redding Full Length Type S die.


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You need the VLD stem for LRX’s. I load a lot of them. The first thing I do with Redding dies is swap out the expander ball for the carbide version and swap out the seater stem for the VLD version. Do those any you’ll get much better consistency in your measurements and better concentricity/leas TIR.

Use a drop tube if you aren’t already. It’ll help reduce the compressed loads.

 

[WTNUT]

You need the VLD stem for LRX’s. I load a lot of them. The first thing I do with Redding dies is swap out the expander ball for the carbide version and swap out the seater stem for the VLD version. Do those any you’ll get much better consistency in your measurements and better concentricity/leas TIR.

Use a drop tube if you aren’t already. It’ll help reduce the compressed loads.

I bought a VLD stem and for the 338 RUM it was not a bit better. If polished the stem and if I go really slow it works a lot better.

I do not have a drop tube good suggestion. Thx.


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[Fireflyfishing]

Get a bullet comparator and measure cartridge base to olive for your seating depths.

 

[SDHNTR]

I bought a VLD stem and for the 338 RUM it was not a bit better. If polished the stem and if I go really slow it works a lot better.

I do not have a drop tube good suggestion. Thx.


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The VLD stem will give you better concentricity.

 

[WTNUT]

Get a bullet comparator and measure cartridge base to olive for your seating depths.

That is how I measure them. Use a Short Action Customs.


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[WTNUT]

The VLD stem will give you better concentricity.

That is probably right, but will you be kind enough to explain why?


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[JF_Idaho]

That is probably right, but will you be kind enough to explain why?


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The angles of a standard seating stem don't match the angles of VLD style bullets. So you are basically seating with a sharp ring instead of beveled contact.

 

[Castle Rock]

I am bumping this up because I figured out what the problem was, and it may help someone in the future. I was loading Barnes LRX bullets. I am loading a compressed load, slightly but still compressed. I had a few bullets really stick in the stem. Called Redding, they said the competition seating die should not be used with compressed load. No need to elaborate further. Then they said Barnes copper bullet were prone to stick a little period.

As I looked closer, slowed down, and went very slow it became apparent that the issue was not the die seating some bullets deeper than others. In stead on some of the bullets the stem was sticking just enough to pull the bullet out 5/1000 or so.

I took lapping compound smoothed out the stem, then went very gentle when removing the bullet down and out of the die. It improved 100 percent. Loading 40 tonight and all good.


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If you’re pulling bullets back out with the seating stem you don’t have enough neck tension, quit annealing all the time, have over softened your brass

 

[SDHNTR]

That is probably right, but will you be kind enough to explain why?


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JF Idaho partially explains it. Essentially LRX and Berger VLD bullets, and other similar secant ogive style bullets have a long and sleek nose. In a standard seating stem, the tip of these kinds of bullets can bottom out in the seating stem, so when you press the bullet into the case a regular seating stem is pushing it into the case mouth at least partially by the pointy part of the bullet, that can lead to some inconsistent lateral force as the bullet is seated. The end result is the bullets aren’t loaded into the case in a perfectly straight and consistent manner. These original seaters were made for traditional bullets with a shorter and rounder nose profile, a tangent ogive.

A VLD stem, on the other hand, has a steeper chamfer angle and allows bullets with a sleek nose shape to seat all the way into the stem so that the stem is pushing the bullet into the case by even contact 360 degrees around and further down the nose with more support, and fully concentric pressure. There should be no contact with the tip of the bullet. Straighter cartridges ultimately.

Read this: the pics show the problem well.

Do I need VLD Seating Stems?

When loading a Very Low Drag (VLD) bullet or a hybrid bullet, we recommend that you use a VLD seating stem to ensure load consistency.

bergerbullets.com

You may have other issues at work too, resulting from compressed loads, but surely, between a drop tube and a VLD seater, your results will improve.

 

[SDHNTR]

If you’re pulling bullets back out with the seating stem you don’t have enough neck tension, quit annealing all the time, have over softened your brass

And or you are using the wrong seating stem. Plenty of us anneal brass after ever firing without “soft brass” issues.

Of course you could need a smaller bushing and more neck tension too, but that’s not necessarily an issue with annealing.

 

[TaperPin]

Yep - I’ve done exactly what you just described - lapped the stem to smooth it out so it doesn’t grab onto copper bullets.

Also, on compressed loads allowing the bullet/case to sit for a few seconds before withdrawing it from the seating die cuts down on bullets wanting to push out.

 

[Mike 338]

If the load is fairly compressed, you can get some wonky seating depths.

 

[A382DWDZQ]

If you’re pulling bullets back out with the seating stem you don’t have enough neck tension, quit annealing all the time, have over softened your brass

I agree with this, not enough neck tension. Take a loaded round and put it in a kinetic puller and give it a few light taps and see how much your bullet comes out. Repeat with more force if it doesn’t move. Make sure it takes a pretty good whack to move the bullet, otherwise you will be moving the bullets on cartridges in the magazine.

 

[hburggunner]

Trying to up my reloading game. On my 338 RUM, I use a reddding full size die with bushing from Short Action Customs. My recollection I am loading to a diameter that is .002 or .003 bullet diameter. My steps are knock out the primer, clean pocket, anneal, tumble, resize, then use expanding mandrel, prime, powder and seat bullet.

I am using ADG brass and Barnes LRX bullets.

When I seat the bullets I am getting up to .005 difference in an overall length. I think this is due to differences in components. Like last night I am sure when I switched to a new box of bullets it changed the overall length and I adjusted the seating die.

My question: is that normal? And, am I being anal as to .005 or .007 difference in OAL?

As always thanks for feedback.


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Scrap the COAL and replace with CBTO. Get a bullet comparator and set seating depth with that. Bullets are pretty much all different slightly in length, especially tipped bullets.

If you’re resizing properly and setting neck tension, you should be in 1 a 1.5 thousands of each round.

I use a full length sizing die with the expander ball removed. Then I run an expander mandrel to set consistent neck tension. Outside with fl die, inside with mandrel. Set seating depth once and don’t adjust.