Running and lifting question

[rhendrix]

I've slacked off when it comes to running and it's starting to show, my physical endurance just isn't what it was a couple months ago. Instead of running I just chose to lift heavy, I saw some pretty good gains as far as my 1rm went, but a 400# squat won't get me up the mountain. So, here's my question: how do I structure a running and lifting program where I can improve my cardiovascular fitness, drop weight, increase my endurance, and maintain my strength at a level where I can pack a metric shit ton of weight up and down a mountain all day long for a couple of weeks every year and still be able to lift heavy? Every thing I've read so far seems to tell me you can have endurance or strength, but you can't excel at both.

 

[Cant hit em]

I've slacked off when it comes to running and it's starting to show, my physical endurance just isn't what it was a couple months ago. Instead of running I just chose to lift heavy, I saw some pretty good gains as far as my 1rm went, but a 400# squat won't get me up the mountain. So, here's my question: how do I structure a running and lifting program where I can improve my cardiovascular fitness, drop weight, increase my endurance, and maintain my strength at a level where I can pack a metric shit ton of weight up and down a mountain all day long for a couple of weeks every year and still be able to lift heavy? Every thing I've read so far seems to tell me you can have endurance or strength, but you can't excel at both.

Try Cardo Acceleration, basically you lift and dont rest but do some sort of cardio in between sets when people like to sit there like a bump on a log.

 

[5MilesBack]

Every thing I've read so far seems to tell me you can have endurance or strength, but you can't excel at both.

About 20 years ago I used to lift with a buddy all the time. He was constantly complaining that all he ever did was get bigger without the strength, and all I could do was get stronger without getting bigger. And we lifted the same way together all the time.

So for me, I generally have the strength and endurance......but I've also been called an anomaly more than a few times in my lifetime, and for more than just this. I think the endurance just comes naturally, whereas I have to work at the strength part.

In college and then for several years after that, I'd lift for 1.5 to 2 hours and then play basketball for a couple hours immediately afterwards. Obviously it was tougher after leg workouts, but after awhile my body really got used to that. So I'd even lift before games.

 

[Nalgene]

http://crossfitendurance.com/

 

[RockyMtnHigh]

Check out a guy named Alex Viada, he squats over 700 lbs and runs a sub 5:00 mile and does ultras. I can't speak on the effectiveness of any of his training methods since I haven't done them, but that kind of strength and endurance combo is incredible.

Personally, I had great results last year switching to a crossfit style of working out. I maintained my strength and was able to really improve my endurance.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Part of it is your genetic makeup. And yes, everything is a trade off. If you work on developing all-world endurance you are likely losing maximum strength in doing so.

I guess you have to answer to yourself where you want to be in the spectrum. On one end you have an endurance athlete with no strength. On the other you have a strength athlete with no endurance. I'm more of an endurance guy that works on strength rather than a strength guy that works on endurance, but my physical build allows me to do so. I'm 6' 200 pounds right now, and at peak fitness will still to 190, so I'm not a string bean.

I run, hike, mountain bike, lift weights, and do HIIT workouts.

I would restructure your lifting workouts so that they are more of an interval type workout. Think supersets with low rest, and alternating strength vs. power exercises.

Do one workout a week that is more endurance oriented. I.e run for a couple of hours, mountain bike, etc. Maybe a weighted pack hike is your best option to incorporate leg and core strength with an endurance/cardio workout?

Lots of good options, diversity is really the best approach.

 

[WoodBow]

Ruck heavy. That was my primary training for the mountains last year. It actually improved several of my lifts as you are gaining a lot of core strength from stabilizing a heavy pack for extended periods. And when I say I ruck, I do not mean jogging or running with a pack. That is a recipe for disaster.

 

[WoodBow]

rhendrix, btw I ran into you on the mountain last year. I was with felix40. We ran into your group down by the lake.

 

[Poser]

While there is certainly an application of strength for endurance (prolonged muscle failures due to increased strength), I think it is probably best to segment your training into blocks. For example, this is a great time of year to focus on pure strength. Transition into more interval training mid year and then endurance specific training (rucking) leading up to hunting season.

 

[Ross]

Very tough for the avg Joe to excel at both especially as we age. As time goes on I have to dedicate more time to the cardio knowing more mass as you noted will not getting you up the hill. As noted a great time of year to focus on strength with many options but still keeping a fair % towards cardio. A tough balancing act it is.

 

[Slim Jim]

I try and maintain at least 4 or 5 days of lifting a week and 3 days of cardio in the same week. I'm 45 years old and bumped up my workouts recently because it's easy to slack off as we age. You just need to stretch more as you get older to help keep injuries at bay that's all.

 

[Ridge Ghost]

I have been in this exact situation. A few years ago I got too caught up into my strength numbers and short metcons, and slacked on endurance workouts. I felt pretty strong, but I didn't have nearly the endurance to hike around all day that I was used to. Not a good trade off.

It's really all about setting goals. What is more important to you? Setting a new PR in squat or clean, or performing your best in the mountains with a pack on? If your primary goal is being ready for mountain hunting, train like it and don't worry too much about hitting your best strength numbers.

Unless you are a professional athlete, you probably don't have the genetic physical makeup, or time for workouts and recovery, to be awesome at every discipline of fitness. Realize that in order to devote more volume to rucking, stair climbs, or trail running, you will likely have to take training volume away from your strength training. Be ok with this, because you are structuring your workout around your primary goal: mountain hunting.

Here's what I do. When hunting season is over, I start from scratch with a linear progression on squat, deadlift and press, along with plenty of cleans and pullups. I will do a variety of running and crossfit wods, but make sure to do at least some pack work. After several stalls and resets on my lifts, I will switch over to 5-3-1 to try to squeeze some more gains out. Once I hit July, I really change up my programming and do rucking and trail runs almost exclusively. I will still hit barbell lifts, but with much less frequency. Will I lose strength that I worked hard all winter to gain? Yes, but that's ok. The training kept things interesting and different during the winter, will help with injury prevention, and will better prepare your body to stabilize a heavy pack. However, actually hiking with a pack will better prepare you for hunting, so switch your focus to that for the last month of two before the season starts.

 

[LongWayAround]

I thought I had posted to this thread but apparently not...

Anyway, I would basically echo what everyone has said. With the addition that I found my hamstrings to be my weak link, especially in uphill hiking. Since I've started hammering them more specifically, I've improved both my strength and mountain-shape.

 

[Ironman8]

Only being able to work on one at a time (strength vs endurance) is IMO an old school thought (although it's still prevalent now). The athletes these days have shown you can do both. Whether or not you have the time or desire to structure a workout to get you those results is another matter altogether. With limited time to train, you may have to pick one or the other. And I'm not talking about needing 3 hours a day to train.

I've reference Alex Viada here before as well and agree with his theory about treating lifting just like you do cardio, with regard to energy systems. It's a matter of balancing volume vs intensity. How you balance that will be dictated mainly by your goals. If it was me (if I had the same goals as you), I'd be doing something like 5/3/1 for lifting (for strength) along with a steady state and moderate intensity interval training for cardio.

 

[Poser]

I thought I had posted to this thread but apparently not...

Anyway, I would basically echo what everyone has said. With the addition that I found my hamstrings to be my weak link, especially in uphill hiking. Since I've started hammering them more specifically, I've improved both my strength and mountain-shape.

Interesting that you say that. I was part of a brutally difficult elk hunt and pack out this Fall -lost 15+ lbs and came back very weak (Backsquat dropped by over 40 pounds) . My whole body was pretty wrecked, but both my partner and I commented how, surprisingly, our hamstrings were the only major lower body muscle group that didn't hurt. Hips, Glutes, quads, calves, ankles and feet were all lit up and severely depleted, but hamstrings? Nothing. Seemed odd considering that muscle group should take a lot of strain with heavy weight on the back while maneuvering steep terrain.

On the subject of overall training, I do agree that it is possible to train strength and endurance simultaneously with careful consideration for volume, but, given that our pursuit of hunting is seasonal, it still makes sense to break the training cycles into periodic areas of focus. So your endurance is down? It's January. Do you need endurance right now? Once you have a solid base level of consistent training, which, It appears that everyone contributing to this thread so far does, endurance should return, increase and respond rather quickly to training, especially if you have a solid strength foundation in place. Strength, while it may not "get you up the mountain", is the most versatile and malleable component of overall fitness.

I also think that these discussions, at some point, tend to split into 2 camps: those whose goal is to be in shape for hunting and hunting only, with all other aspects of fitness being frivolous. The 2nd camp being those who want to be in shape for hunting as well as be all around "good" general athletes. One is a means to an end and the other is more process oriented. If you fall into the 2nd camp, you would likely train hard even if you had nothing to train for, you just enjoy training and geeking out on every detail. If you're in the first camp, you mainly don't want anything to inhibit your hunting, so you do what you have to do to be ready. Nothing wrong with either approach, but I think that is where these training philosophies tend to most often derail from discussion into arguments. One camp doesn't see the point in hauling a set of shoulders up the mountain, the other camp figures if you're going to work hard, might as well have a set of strong shoulders.

 

[WoodBow]

Poser, pretty much spot on. My annual cycle has been focus on strength through winter, start adding conditioning in spring. The closer elk season gets, the more time goes to conditioning and less to strength. But strength is pretty easy to maintain. Every hunt i lose 10-15 lbs and all big lifts are down so much that i dont even want to lift. October brings deer season in tx so i focus on that until jan 1st. Now the desire to lift is back and the mountains are back on my brain.