Sitka vs Kuiu by the Numbers

[Ryan Avery]

Keep it to facts, not hearsay! One bad experience doesn't necessary count as a FACT! KEEP THIS THREAD ON TRACK!!!

 

[gelton]

Never liked Kuiu because of the way they represented themselves here on rokslide (posting under new names that used the same IP address and pulling their advertising from this site because they didnt want their pack thrown from a mountain).

BUT

I really like the design of their mountain star tent and wanted one. However, there are reports of leaking that Kuiu simply wont address. Instead they pulled the tents from their website and are unavailable to this day. Keep in mind that if this is true and their tents do leak they have an obligation to inform people because of the safety issues of getting caught on the top of a mountain with a leaky tent - but they haven't addressed it one way or the other, even though the reports of leaking is discussed by customers on kuiu's own forum.

So if you take the examples I have seen first hand here on rokslide and combine it with the way their non handling of a potentially deadly situation with their tents, you can start to form an opinion of a company (not the quality or weight of the clothes they produce) and based on what I can see, its not a company that has a solid direction with solid leadership and for that I question why I ever considered buying one of their tents in the first place.

Instead of facing the issue and answering whether there is a problem one way or the other they have totally skirted the entire issue and just pulled them from their site, when, if there is a leaking problem, there should have been a recall. And if there isnt a leaking problem they should have made that clear too, but they didnt, so there probably is a problem that they are unwilling to face.

Just my .02.

 

[tater]

Does it do what i need it to do, inside the expected parameters of comfort and reliability within my budget?

If the answer is yes, i can't say i really care what label is on it.
No one company does it all perfectly, so take what you need and leave the rest.

BTW, Outwest you were probably that PITA guy in a stats class who actually ENJOYED it

 

[Outwest]

As much as I enjoy reading others opinions about these two companies(no sarcasm, SOME of it is useful info), that has been done before many, many times. I feel this thread has gone way off target. This was meant to be a BY THE NUMBERS comparison. NOT included were customer service, company reputation or personal preference, which cannot be measured on a scale and quantified. Just to give you guys some real numbers.

As to the actual comparison. We can see that kuiu is lighter overall and it is also cheaper overall. Those are facts that we can measure and see and so they were included in the comparison.

Obviously, personal preference will dictate decision making overall, but this is a good way to start comparing.

Tater,
Funny you mention that, I just finished a stats course this semester. It can be a grind but I did oddly enjoy it, but maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment

 

[charvey9]

Interesting. One of the main reasons I switched from Sitka to KUIU was the weight difference on similar items. I've owned a complete Sitka and KUIU kit, and have been happy with products and customer service from both companies.

 

[Ross]

Appreciate the time you took to put the chart together Outwest....thanks for the info

 

[WyoBowhunter21]

Good post! Thanks for doing the fun stuff. I personally have never owned anything kuiu but that's not because of others. It's cause I love my Sitka and kryptek. One thing to point out is as hunters today we have variety. I think it's awesome we can do an analysis such as this post. I appreciate posts such as this.

 

[nsedillo]

Outwest, which university are you enrolled at? I am born and raised from nm, enrolled at UNM.

 

[Outwest]

Outwest, which university are you enrolled at? I am born and raised from nm, enrolled at UNM.

Same here on being a NM native but Go Aggies! Have some buddies up at UNM but we usually try not to associate with those types of people

Cool deal man, didn't figure there were too many other college students on here.

 

[JDZ]

I like the "by the numbers" type of comparison. Thanks for posting. But, I don't think dollars per pound is really a good way to report results here. Weight is not desireable, but yet something with high weight would lower the $/lb. A better unit would be dollar pounds. Dollars times pounds; $lb. Low cost and low weight are desireable. Divide the result by 1000 or something, if you want, since the number will be really big. Of course this has limitations too. A plastic garbage sack would have a really low $lb. It's lightweight and cheap, but probably not the best choice for mountain hunting gear. Anyway, I like the numbers talk.

 

[avodude]

Good point JDZ, you pretty much nailed it. That is what needs to be done for a decent analysis here.

 

[nsedillo]

Good deal, I attended my first year down there, my brother is an Aggie. He'll be my "packhorse" on the late season ibex hunt.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

Keep it to facts, not hearsay! One bad experience doesn't necessary count as a FACT! KEEP THIS THREAD ON TRACK!!!

Well that's exactly what I did.

Fact 1: Currently Sitka has a much broader product line designed for more hunting scenarios than Kuiu. No argument to be made here.

Fact 2: Currently Sitka Gear can be purchased 24/7 from a variety of sources making it easier to locate sales and/or secure a professions discount while currently Kuiu items are largely unavailable because of their business model.

Fact 3: Currently Sitka Gear offers a variety of sythetic insulation pieces...currently Kuiu does not but apparently is going to begin offering some. No doubt the fanboys will pre-purchase before the product is seen. <g>

Fact 4: If you Google you will find that Kuiu has screwed their reputation for customer care repeatedly including (but not limited to) sizing issues, poor craftsmanship, product line revisions and discontinuance, insufficient inventory, misrepresentation of sales pricing, failing to build a decent website that doesn't crash and apparently suffers a shortage of employees sufficient to handle the call volume at times. I never received one reply to my 3 emails to Kuiu. No such issues with Sitka.

Fact 5: Kuiu also has a reputation for burying the truth on their own boards. Post anything negative on their site and it disappears faster than you can say TRUTH HURTS. This is a common complaint. What is Kuiu hiding? Why do they aggressively censor posters who are not being malicious? And why do their tents leak? Oh well...you'll never know cuz the posts go invisible instantly.

Fact 6: I like the Attack pants, the puffy jacket was too thin, lacked insulation and left me cold. Haven't had a chance to really test their merino base wear much but it seems okay.

Fact 7: Yes I have attacked Kuiu's business model in the past and find they fall short much of the time. Compared to Sitka's business model they suck IMHO but hey, I've only been self employed for 36 years so what do I know?

 

[JWP58]

Fact 4: If you Google you will find that Kuiu has screwed their reputation for customer care repeatedly including (but not limited to) misrepresentation of sales pricing, failing to build a decent website that doesn't crash and apparently a shortage of employees sufficient to handle the call volume at times. No such issues with Sitka.

Actually you'll just find posts by you, complaining about stuff like sales, pricing, and availability....

 

[Where's Bruce?]

And sizing issues, poor construction, smelliness, censorship and other things but ya gotta get past all their SEO work first.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/archive/index.php/t-1618149.html
http://onyourownadventures.com/hunttalk/showthread.php?t=252375
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...topics/9251913/Re_Damned_irritated_at_Kuiu_cu
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2367824&highlight=Kuiu
http://www.rokslide.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-3668.html
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1951598

I could keep this up but it's a work day...

 

[weaver]

You have made your point bruce.....words on the internet don't mean much to me.

 

[DaveC]

As to the actual comparison. We can see that kuiu is lighter overall and it is also cheaper overall. Those are facts that we can measure and see and so they were included in the comparison.

Obviously, personal preference will dictate decision making overall, but this is a good way to start comparing.

Good stuff Outwest.

What I find remarkable with both, but moreso with Sitka, is how they've marketed the lifestyle aspect of "hardcore" hunting to make what I assume is a lot of money. 150 dollar powerstretch shirts? 100+ dollar gaiters? 200 dollar windshells with a ton of silly pockets? 600 dollar insulated "systems" for whitetail hunting 3/4 of a mile from a house? They've done their job well.

The overwhelming majority of the complaints I've heard about Kuiu seem to come from experienced hunters who never learned much about backpacking before going to AK, and blaming the company for their own failure to understand how WPB technologies work. Kuiu has surely made the problem worse with their hyperbolic, least-common-denominator ad copy (the most advanced ____ EVER DESIGNED).

I sorta understand the I want to support hunting companies mentality, but as of now you can spend less and get gray/brown/black clothes from plain mountain companies and have a system which is lighter, more durable, and more functional. Choices, choices.

 

[IdahoElk]

It's entertaining/laughable with all the Kuiu bashing while giving constant accolades to Sitka when the same guy started both companies,surely that fact alone should give Jason some credibility that he has what it takes to make Kuiu(3-4yrs) the success Sitka(10+yrs) is today.
I doubt anyone can name a company that in their first few years has been able to accomplish what Kuiu has for us hunters,I'm glad they raised the bar for the competition.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

It's entertaining/laughable with all the Kuiu bashing while giving constant accolades to Sitka when the same guy started both companies,surely that fact alone should give Jason some credibility that he has what it takes to make Kuiu(3-4yrs) the success Sitka(10+yrs) is today.
I doubt anyone can name a company that in their first few years has been able to accomplish what Kuiu has for us hunters,I'm glad they raised the bar for the competition.

Is it "bashing" to point out the inarguable truth? Jason may know clothing but his business acumen is virtually nill.

 

[duchntr]

Good stuff Outwest.

What I find remarkable with both, but moreso with Sitka, is how they've marketed the lifestyle aspect of "hardcore" hunting to make what I assume is a lot of money. 150 dollar powerstretch shirts? 100+ dollar gaiters? 200 dollar windshells with a ton of silly pockets? 600 dollar insulated "systems" for whitetail hunting 3/4 of a mile from a house? They've done their job well.

The overwhelming majority of the complaints I've heard about Kuiu seem to come from experienced hunters who never learned much about backpacking before going to AK, and blaming the company for their own failure to understand how WPB technologies work. Kuiu has surely made the problem worse with their hyperbolic, least-common-denominator ad copy (the most advanced ____ EVER DESIGNED).

I sorta understand the I want to support hunting companies mentality, but as of now you can spend less and get gray/brown/black clothes from plain mountain companies and have a system which is lighter, more durable, and more functional. Choices, choices.

Well said Dave!