Someone please explain these detachable magazine options to me

[SDHNTR]

I’ve noticed some custom actions available nowadays are not compatible with traditional hinged floor plates. This is weird to me. Impact NBK, for example.

1. Why? Why would a manufacturer not offer a BDL style bottom metal? Why are AICS/AW mags so popular? Seems to be a new standard. What is their advantage? I don’t get it. I think they are ugly, feel cheap since most are plastic and they are awkward with the way they hang down.

2. What is the mechanical difference between AICS and AW magazines? Pros and cons of one over the other?

3. I’ve seen some types of DBM that advertise “flush mount” but they don’t really appear to be. There’s still some amount sticking out. Are any truly flush mount? Or who makes the closest thing to flush? Preferably metal too.

 

[BBob]

2. What is the mechanical difference between AICS and AW magazines? Pros and cons of one over the other?

AICS is single center feed at top. AW is a staggered double stack that feeds from the side like a std box except it uses the sides of the mag as feed rails instead of integrated action rails. AW capacity is higher for overall length of mag due to the full double stack configuration. AW needs an action with no feed rails, they would get in the way. AW's don't tolerate as wide of a variety of cartridges due to body taper variances. 308 fine, 22-250 mby not.

 

[SDHNTR]

AICS is single center feed at top, AW is a staggered double stack that feeds from the side like a std box except it uses the sides of the mag as feed rails instead of integrated action rails. AW capacity is higher for overall length of mag due to the full double stack configuration. AW needs an action with no feed rails, they would get in the way. AW's don't tolerate as wide of a variety of cartridges due to body taper variances. 308 fine, 22-250 mby not.

Thanks. Makes perfect sense.

 

[Macintosh]

As far as the “why”, I have the impression that a large % of the high-end rifles sold go to PRS shooters, either for that game or for when those shooters hunt. “Practical precision” rifle seems to be a major growth and sales area in firearms over the past few years.
Personally, I have always greatly preferred a detachable mag. My first deer rifle was a 7600 and the ability to simply carry a spare mag or drop the mag out to unload the rifle has always seemed far more convenient to me, and safer than cycling through every round on a blind mag with no floor-plate (and less prone to dropping rounds in the snow). Much of that probably in my head, but thats my take. I appreciate metal, but plastic is proven durable, its light, and its not a hangup for “the glock generation”.

I am surprised there arent more truly flush mags for the most popular systems. The only truly flush mag Ive seen from those systems is the MDT 3-round aics. I modified my ctr to also accept these just to have a flush option. Its polymer, but it is truly flush.

 

[Kimber7man]

@Macintosh nailed it, MDT poly 3 round mags are flush fitting in a standard short action.

 

[Kimber7man]

As to the why, I use them for 100% reliable feeding. AICS single feed.

 

[ID_Matt]

The Hawkins Hunter DBM is nearly flush and is the complete opposite of cheap feeling. They also feed fantastic in my experience. I don't think I'll ever do a BDL again.

 

[SDHNTR]

Ok, why? What’s the advantage over a BDL? Just seems like something to lose. Something to drop in the dirt. Something to forget at home on your workbench, etc.

 

[ID_Matt]

Feeds much better and less finicky than a BDL in my opinion. They lock in to the bottom metal tight. Only take it out to load or unload.

 

[BBob]

Ok, why? What’s the advantage over a BDL? Just seems like something to lose. Something to drop in the dirt. Something to forget at home on your workbench, etc.

Never lost one and I’ve been using them for years now. Mostly APA bottom metal. Near impossible to push the latch unintended. Originally I was using Curtis mags as the primary in the gun with an Accurate AICS as the backup in hip pouch. I now have some Hawkins since Curtis was always hard to get. The Curtis/Hawkins are only 1/8” below the bottom metal. I don’t even notice when hand carrying the rifle. Not truly smooth or flush but so little I don’t notice. Now down here in the SW I’m wearing gloves to save my hands so that might make a slight difference.

 

[Macintosh]

Ok, why? What’s the advantage over a BDL? Just seems like something to lose. Something to drop in the dirt. Something to forget at home on your workbench, etc.

I think a bdl is usually lighter. I cant say one is any more or less reliable in my experience.

But as far as losing or dropping, I am more likely to drop rounds when individually loading or unloading them into a bdl, wheras I can load mags at home. I am exactly as likely to forget a mag as I am to forget my little bundle of cartridges…two versions of the same thing. I carry two mags hunting, one in the gun (or in my pocket before I load) and a spare that lives in my pack, so even if I were to drop or forget a mag I still have the spare. I dont personally see the mag vs bdl as any different in this regard.

 

[SDHNTR]

I think a bdl is usually lighter. I cant say one is any more or less reliable in my experience.

But as far as losing or dropping, I am more likely to drop rounds when individually loading or unloading them into a bdl, wheras I can load mags at home. I am exactly as likely to forget a mag as I am to forget my little bundle of cartridges…two versions of the same thing. I carry two mags hunting, one in the gun (or in my pocket before I load) and a spare that lives in my pack, so even if I were to drop or forget a mag I still have the spare. I dont personally see the mag vs bdl as any different in this regard.

Valid points there.

 

[Hill Difficulty]

Here are a couple pics of a SA MDT single stack AICS mag in a PTG flush version DBM.

 

[SDHNTR]

Here are a couple pics of a SA MDT single stack AICS mag in a PTG flush version DBM.


View attachment 546940View attachment 546941

I like how flush that fits. Thanks. Can you get three down?

 

[SDHNTR]

Here are a couple pics of a SA MDT single stack AICS mag in a PTG flush version DBM.


View attachment 546940View attachment 546941

What’s that little lever though? Mag release?

 

[Hill Difficulty]

Yes, lever is mag release.

Yes, can load 1 in chamber + 3 in mag. Three 22 Creedmoor case bodies stack with a little room to spare.

 

[SDHNTR]

Gotcha, they appear to make Obendorf style without that lever too. What’s the advantage of the lever? Does it not get in the way?

Any fitment issues? I’ve hear lots of stories about PTG bottom metal needing lots of custom fitting.

If I don’t want the lever, this what I want?

 

[Hill Difficulty]

If no lever and flush, Grayboe offers a version with the release inside the trigger guard.

The DBM in my pics does not fit in any of my SA rifle stocks. Just laying around.

 

[woods89]

I switched to a Badger dbm on my main hunting rifle a couple years ago. I will not be going back to floorplates.

I thought I might want one of the flush designs, but after carrying a AICS 5 rnd in it for a couple seasons, it's a non issue for me. I'll keep using 5 rounders.

Mine has the little lever hanging down. It's not a big deal, but after using it for a year or so I took a hacksaw and cut it off just long enough that I can engage it with a gloved finger. I definitely like it better shortened.

One thing I do is put a strip of electrical tape on each side of the mag where it sits against the mag well. I have to give it a gentle tug to get the mag out now, so it won't drop out if the lever gets hit.

 

[SDHNTR]

If no lever and flush, Grayboe offers a version with the release inside the trigger guard.

The DBM in my pics does not fit in any of my SA rifle stocks. Just laying around.

Kind of supports my point. Unnecessarily complicated. Too many options. So some end up fitting and some don’t. Just seems like bottom metal is the one component to a rifle system that doesn’t need a bunch of options. If it’s 700 compatible and you buy a 700 inlet stock, it should just fit. At least in the world according to me!