When you have to shoot (a rifle) at an animal that is further than your zero, what method do you use to compensate for the shot?

[robtattoo]

Don't feel like you need to go blow a fortune & for god's sake, don't get bitten by Magnumitis.
My suggestion would be to hop over to Wally World & grab whatevers on sale right now in a common caller. .243, 6.5, .270, 7-08, .308
slap on your CDS, spend as much time as you can at the range & go kill some deers.

 

[Laramie]

What about 30-06 or 300 win mag vs the .243? Not to open a giant debate, but....

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

There are many cartridges that would be very effective for your situation. If you are looking for a new rifle for 0-400 yards on deer size game, I love the 25-06. It has lower recoil and delivers fantastic results on deer size game at those ranges.

 

[Yard Candy]

Don't feel like you need to go blow a fortune & for god's sake, don't get bitten by Magnumitis.
My suggestion would be to hop over to Wally World & grab whatevers on sale right now in a common caller. .243, 6.5, .270, 7-08, .308
slap on your CDS, spend as much time as you can at the range & go kill some deers.

I was asking because I'm looking for something that double for black bear. I know my 30-30 can, but not at longer ranges.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[Yard Candy]

It is refreshing to see someone ask an honest question and have honest unbiased dialogue about the subject prior to making the decision. Good question and kudos for working through the logic. So many people these days would discount the facts and just lob lead down range. If you were in my area, I would gladly loan you a good long range rifle to use from that stand. Good luck this year.

Thank you. I'm new to the forum but have had nothing but good experiences so far. I was getting tired of the crap people give you on Reddit when you have a legit question.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[robtattoo]

What about 30-06 or 300 win mag vs the .243? Not to open a giant debate, but....

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

.30-06 is seldom the wrong choice & hardly ever a bad one. .300WM..... weellll, honestly although it is a spectacular round, it's going to take some getting used to. If we're being honest here, i would humbly submit that 99+% of animals killed with a magnum could've just as reliably been killed with an '06 & probably a .308 or 7-08.

If you live in windy, open prairie with big animals, it does make sense, but for everyone else, maybe not so much.

 

[robtattoo]

In my personal opinion (and that's all it is) a .308 will do everything you'll ever need. Black bear are really not that hard to kill & there's nothing in my safe I wouldn't carry for them.

 

[Yard Candy]

.30-06 is seldom the wrong choice & hardly ever a bad one. .300WM..... weellll, honestly although it is a spectacular round, it's going to take some getting used to. If we're being honest here, i would humbly submit that 99+% of animals killed with a magnum could've just as reliably been killed with an '06 & probably a .308 or 7-08.

If you live in windy, open prairie with big animals, it does make sense, but for everyone else, maybe not so much.

I'm out east. Lots of woods, forests, farm fields, marshes, all situations in my area are
I started hunting 2 seasons ago. All 3 deer I've taken were
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[robtattoo]

I'm out east. Lots of woods, forests, farm fields, marshes, all situations in my area are
I started hunting 2 seasons ago. All 3 deer I've taken were
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Same here. I reserve my '06 for out west. All my hunting here in TN is done with a 6.5x55 or .358 winchester. Longest shot I've had to take was 425yds & the little 6.5 performed flawlessly.

 

[Yard Candy]

With that gun and load, I would sight in with the MPBR method. On deer sized game, you should zero around 190 yards and would only be good to about 225 yards. Beyond this, your energy drops below 1000 lbs so I personally wouldn't want to attempt anything further.

The energy is 1025 at 300 yards for that load.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[WCB]

I have a Mildot scope with half mil marks. I either dial or hold Mils. windage is always a hold.

 

[Sobrbiker]

I recommend knowing your rifle by having shot it at every 100yds to its effective range.
Know the conditions, and use that info to adjust to the conditions you find yourself hunting in.

 

[Newtosavage]

I don't have a lot of experience shooting at game beyond 200 yards. I'm not sure most people do, to be honest. Statistics show that the average shot distance, even on western game, is somewhere under 200 yards. Considering how few animals we're allowed/able to take each year, I'd be really surprised if a typical western hunter has taken more 200+ yard shots on game than they can count on their fingers. So, don't feel bad asking the question.

I'm a holdover guy. I guess it comes from my archery background and the fact that I didn't grow up with ballistic reticles and I never heard of "dialing" until maybe 10 years ago. I tried dialing and it wasn't for me. Too used to holdovers. But I do like a good, simple ballistic reticle. Something I've practiced with a LOT so I'm used to the holdovers and I trust them.

Both my primary hunting scopes have Leupold LR Duplex reticles, with 2 dots below the crosshair. I zero at 200 yards, and the 1st dot is usually pretty close to 300 and the 2nd dot is usually pretty close to 400. I'll work out how close during my practice sessions, combined with studying ballistic charts and adjusting those tables for the conditions where I expect to be hunting. I have zero plans of taking a shot on game beyond 400 yards, but I would if I was trying to finish off a wounded animal. Otherwise, I'll just keep walking.

Standard duplexes can be useful too, if you have the right amount of MOA between the crosshair and the lower post. I find scopes with 6 MOA between these to be very useful, zeroing at 200 and the tip of the bottom post usually being very close to 400 yards. 300 yards is of course, halfway between which is pretty easy to do in the field. The reason I don't use standard Leupold duplexes is because they are usually 4 MOA between these points, and I find that very awkward for my needs.

Good luck, and remember there is no substitute for real-world practice!

 

[Laramie]

The energy is 1025 at 300 yards for that load.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Take a look at the fine print. That is using a 24" barrel. The average factory produced 30-30 has a MUCH shorter barrel. For instance, the factory Marlin 336 has a barrel length of just over 16". This brings your initial muzzle velocity down to approximately 2000 FPS. You fall below 1000 lbs of energy before 200 yards in this scenario. You can play with the Hornady ballistics calculator to see different scenarios. Your ammo lists a velocity of 2400 FPS out of a 24" barrel. For each inch of barrel that your is shorter, you should subtract 50 feet per second. Enter you velocity, a drag coefficient of G! and a SD of .241 and you will get approximate information for your actual rifles performance. https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/

 

[Yard Candy]

Take a look at the fine print. That is using a 24" barrel. The average factory produced 30-30 has a MUCH shorter barrel. For instance, the factory Marlin 336 has a barrel length of just over 16". This brings your initial muzzle velocity down to approximately 2000 FPS. You fall below 1000 lbs of energy before 200 yards in this scenario. You can play with the Hornady ballistics calculator to see different scenarios. Your ammo lists a velocity of 2400 FPS out of a 24" barrel. For each inch of barrel that your is shorter, you should subtract 50 feet per second. Enter you velocity, a drag coefficient of G! and a SD of .241 and you will get approximate information for your actual rifles performance. https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/

Thank you for all that info! I knew of the 24" barrel fineprint, but I had no idea that velocity changes like that as the barrel gets shorter.

My Marlin's barrel is 20", so I'm looking at 2200 FPS by your rule of thumb. I plugged the updates into their calculator and it looks like I'll have 1032 lbs at 225 yards. Past that it goes under 1000 lbs.

When you said, "and a SD of .241", what does that mean?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[Laramie]

Thank you for all that info! I knew of the 24" barrel fineprint, but I had no idea that velocity changes like that as the barrel gets shorter.

My Marlin's barrel is 20", so I'm looking at 2200 FPS by your rule of thumb. I plugged the updates into their calculator and it looks like I'll have 1032 lbs at 225 yards. Past that it goes under 1000 lbs.

When you said, "and a SD of .241", what does that mean?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

No problem. Sounds like you are getting a good idea what the ethical limits of your setup is. To get exact information, it would be necessary to shoot your rifle through a chronograph to measure actual velocity.

SD is sectional density. It is a calculation of a bullets weight and diameter.

 

[Yard Candy]

No problem. Sounds like you are getting a good idea what the ethical limits of your setup is. To get exact information, it would be necessary to shoot your rifle through a chronograph to measure actual velocity.

SD is sectional density. It is a calculation of a bullets weight and diameter.

I watched a video from Vortex Optics showing how to get your FPS without a chronograph.

Zero your rifle at 100 yards. Then, shoot a grouping at 300 yards, aiming at the center of the target. Measure your grouping's bullet drop on the 300 yard target. Adjust the velocity in your ballistic app until the bullet drop at 300 yards within the app equals your bullet drop in real life, at 300 yards. As long as all your other settings in the app are correct, you just determined your velocity.

I would assume you could do this at other distances. It doesn't have to be 100/300.

Obviously nothing compares to a chronograph but this seems like the most accurate runner up.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[slancey]

You've asked a great question and gotten a lot of really good advice. You've even managed to get me to reconsider my own choice. After reading this entire thread I can only add two fine points:

1. If you use a ballistic reticle, and the reticle doesn't change in size when you change the magnification setting (second, or rear, focal plane), you'll have to leave the scope magnification set in the field, otherwise the bullet drop marks will be off. If you use a scope with a reticle in the first (or front) focal plane, then you can use the hash marks at any magnification setting.

2. If you hunt at an elevation that is much different than the elevation where you practice shooting, you will have to adjust your scope once you arrive for the hunt. I live and shoot at 600' above sea level. When I got to the field for my first western hunting trip, I was at over 6000'. I discovered how far off my sight-in was at the range the day prior to the hunt.

Let us know which way you go.

 

[Yard Candy]

You've asked a great question and gotten a lot of really good advice. You've even managed to get me to reconsider my own choice. After reading this entire thread I can only add two fine points:

1. If you use a ballistic reticle, and the reticle doesn't change in size when you change the magnification setting (second, or rear, focal plane), you'll have to leave the scope magnification set in the field, otherwise the bullet drop marks will be off. If you use a scope with a reticle in the first (or front) focal plane, then you can use the hash marks at any magnification setting.

2. If you hunt at an elevation that is much different than the elevation where you practice shooting, you will have to adjust your scope once you arrive for the hunt. I live and shoot at 600' above sea level. When I got to the field for my first western hunting trip, I was at over 6000'. I discovered how far off my sight-in was at the range the day prior to the hunt.

Let us know which way you go.

Great talking points! Regarding:

1. I knew about the dot yardages changing when you change the zoom. I'm surprised no one mentioned that when suggesting the BDC method.

The only way I knew is because Nikon's ballistic app tells you the yardages for each dot, at each zoom level.

2. The range I shoot at is fairly close in elevation to where I hunt. Great tip though for like you mentioned, if traveling.

I'm gonna go with adjusting turrets before shooting. I will use the Hornady app in the field but print out a sheet of the adjustments and tape it to my stock as a backup. Of course this will all be tested ahead of time at varrying distances.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[Rail505]

In my personal opinion (and that's all it is) a .308 will do everything you'll ever need. Black bear are really not that hard to kill & there's nothing in my safe I wouldn't carry for them.

This, from what most experts say.

 

[w squared]

I've been shooting for far longer that I've been hunting, so my approach is a little different. I've spent a few thousand dollars on training from some truly first-rate instructors - and learned a ton by doing so. Tjis has given me the change to see first-hand what a well-thought out rifle and scope system can deliver in the hands of a competent rifleman....and also learn first hand how badly a mechanical failure or lack of applying shooting fundamentals can turn out.

With all that said, the longest shot I've ever taken on a game animal was 85 yards - because there was no need to take a longer shot.

Dialing a turret in the field is definitely one approach, but I've learned the heard way that most turret elevation mechanisms fail to offer precision, repeatability, or reliability unless you're looking at a higher end piece of glass that is designed to have you spinning dials regularly. BDC reticles are another option - but you need to understand what each point means with respect to your rifle and your load - and then verify it at the range, on paper, at the actual distances you will be hunting at.

Also understand that what works perfectly at 400 yards in you rifle when you zero it at 13 feet above sea level in Houston does not transfer smoothly to a 400 yard shot taken in the high desert in Arizona. This is not a huge issue at most ethical hunting distances, but you can make your life easier by verifying your holdovers in weather and elevation conditions similar to what you will be hunting in.

There is some great advice in this thread, and some not so great advice. The one piece of advice that I think is the most important is this - don't ever shoot at a game animal at a given distance unless you have invested a fair amount of time and effort in practicing with that rifle and scope combination at that same distance. Likewise - once the range exceeds 200 yards, you should have invested significant time into understanding how to compensate for the effect of the wind on your bullet, as well as the potential effect of shooting at a target which is at a different elevation than you.

If investing that time and practice is not something that is practical for you due to financial and time constraints - that doesn't reflect poorly on you. It simply means that "MPBR" or Maximum Point Blank Range is the smart way to hunt. Determine what the diameter of the vital area on your quarry is, and know the range at which your bullet will stay inside that diameter, with your point of aim at the center.

As an example, my .308 has a 200 yard zero, and a 225 yard MPBR. At the muzzle, the bullet is 1.5" below my line of sight. At 100 yards, it's 2" above my line of sight. At 200 yards, it's crossing my line of sight. At 225 yards, it's 2" below my line of sight. That means that if I have a circle 4" across and I put my crosshairs in the center of it when I break the shot, the bullet will always stay somewhere inside that circle if the animal is within 225 yards of me. A 4" circle is honestly rather small compared to the vitals of a muley or elk - but I was using that rifle to hunt feral hogs at fairly close ranges in thick cover, so I was generally looking to break the shoulder and get into the boiler room - not a huge area where you get both on the tasty hogs in to 100-150 pound range.