Which arrow would you choose?

[GLB]

Been hunting with Trad gear for over 30 years. I have mostly used wood arrows that I built myself during this time. Last year I started experimenting with carbon shafts for the first time. I dropped down in bow weight from low 60s to the low 50 lbs. I drew a good moose tag this year and that is my focus.
Anyway I went to carbon to try the higher FOC to help in penetration from my lighter bows. For my 53lbs Robertson longbow I came up with two different carbon arrows that fly well both with 250 grains up front.

Arrow #1 weights 550 grains total with 20% FOC
Arrow #2 weights 600 grains total with 18% FOC
Both will use the same two blade broadhead. What would you choose??

 

[PHo]

The one that flies straighter. After messing around with the Ashby stuff for the last several years Ive realized that a straight flying arrow that is perfectly tuned and has decent weight is more important than any of that high FOC/heavy arrow shit. It looks like both of the options you provided are heavy enough for moose. It’s just a matter of which one tunes the best.

 

[Beendare]

I would agree on the arrow flight comment from Pho.

I shoot a 600gr arrow in my 50-ish recurves....but I doubt you will see much difference between 550-600gr....

For me, I can get some arrows to tune and they are still a bit finicky....call it a fine line. The tiniest flaw of how I hold my tab or my release affects it.

Other arrows tune and seem to be a wider range of what works....more forgiving.

So if I'm shooting a bare shaft consistently.....vs sporadically, that tells me I found the right arrow

..

....

 

[Trial153]

All things equal the heavier of the two. If they arent equal then the arrow that the bow likes better.

 

[GLB]

They both fly good with BHs at 20 yards. When I get a good day I will try them both at point on distance probably 35+ yards and see which will group better.

 

[GLB]

All in all, I think my wood arrows would be fine for this hunt. They would usually finish at about 570 grains and I tapper the back 9" of the arrow from 11/32 to 5/16. However there is a lot of credible information on carbons with high FOC that helps in penetration.
This will be the lightest draw weight bow I have used for moose and hoping the carbons will give me some advantage on penetration.

 

[ScottinPA]

Here's my take for what it's worth: momentum directly correlates to penetration. Momentum is mass multiplied by velocity. FOC doesn't come into the equation for penetration but does in terms of aerodynamics/stability and can clean up arrow flight in poorly tuned setups.

Go with the arrow that flies the best, nothing wrong with the woodies especially since they're proven.

 

[elkstabber]

My experience with high FOC didn't show increased penetration. I've found that the momentum is more important than high FOC. High FOC does allow for easier arrow tuning, which has some advantages.

Overall, better arrow flight is always best and if you've found good flight with wood shafts then carbons may not be for you.

There are only two advantages to carbon: more durable for stump shooting, and stay straighter.
Wood advantages: quieter in all respects, look better, and smell better.

 

[Kevin Dill]

You'd be able to kill a mature bull with either of the 2 carbon setups mentioned, or with your woodies. The difference between shaft types would most likely show up as better penetration from carbon....assuming identical shot placement. My only advice on the woodies from a 53 pound bow would be to keep shots short and only take broadside shots. I doubt if you would see much performance difference in the 2 carbon arrows described. I would likely shoot the heck out of them from 5 to 25 yards and do a very thorough and impartial comparison of their flight characteristics and accuracy.

 

[GLB]

One advantage that I see with heavy front carbons is that they straighten up quicker from paradox vs the wood shafts. That in itself would help to maintain speed which should improve penetration.
Also in my testing with carbons for almost a year now is when I go over 20% FOC the wind (cross wind) seems to effects arrow flight more than say 15-18% FOC

 

[Kevin Dill]

I did some testing once and found two main things affect wind-drift in arrows: Wind speed is one. The other is duration of exposure to wind. A faster arrow has less time airborne in which to be affected by crosswinds. I've shot enough bows from 50 to 70+ pounds in all kinds of wind to test this. I live on an exposed hill and it's actually uncommon to have a day of no wind for shooting. Invariably my fastest flying arrows show the best performance in the wind and that's regardless of arrow weight.

Now I WILL stand up and say that things like bow/arrow tuning, release, fletching and arrow balance can all muck up the science. Big fletching is a bad deal in crosswinds. So is more paradox on release. How the degree of FOC affects arrow flight would seem to be very subjective to the archer, and could be further affected by things such as arrow length, draw length, bow weight etc. All you can do is try to shoot and compare apples to apples. Sounds like you're on track.

 

[Beendare]

I don't get all wrapped up in that Uber FOC -30% and over- dog and pony show.

The only reason I even know my FOC is from running my arrows on the Stu Miller Calculator...and it seems that high teens is always a sweet spot for great arrow flight.

In the hundreds of animals I've seen shot with an arrow, penetration has been directly related to arrow weight- all other factors equal. Guys like to talk KE and MO........but arrow weight explains penetration better than anything, IME.

The problem with arrow equations, they don't factor in Resistance in an object [the animal] Speed is squared in resistance formulas...more speed increases resistance exponentially. So an equation that only considers the arrow...is only 1/2 the problem. This also explains why a tapered COC BH is so effective...it counteracts that resistance.

 

[GLB]

Yes Kevin Dill flight time in the wind is huge. On a side note one of my favorite shooting sports is Precision/Longrange Rifle. I have several custom rifles for that purpose and like to compete when I can. Understanding the effects of wind on bullet impact at distance is huge. I have a ballistic calculator and D.O.P.E to help me with that.
But not so much with the Stickbow.

 

[Btaylor]

Yes Kevin Dill flight time in the wind is huge. On a side note one of my favorite shooting sports is Precision/Longrange Rifle. I have several custom rifles for that purpose and like to compete when I can. Understanding the effects of wind on bullet impact at distance is huge. I have a ballistic calculator and D.O.P.E to help me with that.
But not so much with the Stickbow.

1.5-2 ribs per 10mph of crosswind @25 yards should keep you in the goodies for a middle of the road setup.

 

[GLB]

^^^ That's it!

 

[oldgoat]

Lot of good points, I've been shooting some upper 20s FOC for the last year plus, if you don't considerably reduce your fletching size with the high FOC, you are going to have problems with the cross winds!!! If you've experimented with higher FOC and didn't reduce your Fletch to 2.5" or less or really low profile 3" etc then you didn't complete the experiment. That being said, well tuned straight flying trumps all others. I just know I've shot my high FOC small fletch and some evenly weighted big fletch in a consistent cross wind and had better flight with the high FOC.

 

[GLB]

^^^ Makes sense because the heavy front is guiding the arrow. For me going from 5.5" feathers to 5" is reducing ...I was able to get some good shooting yesterday and I think I found my answer. I'm gonna continue with this for confirmation.

 

[oldgoat]

^^^ Makes sense because the heavy front is guiding the arrow. For me going from 5.5" feathers to 5" is reducing ...I was able to get some good shooting yesterday and I think I found my answer. I'm gonna continue with this for confirmation.

It makes sense because moving the balance point to the front increases the length of the lever arm creating a lot more leverage! With more leverage you need less feather!! And for me personally, this, along with coming out of paradox quicker is a bigger selling point than the penetration!

 

[GLB]

Yep got it. Thanks,

 

[Tradtiger]

It makes sense because moving the balance point to the front increases the length of the lever arm creating a lot more leverage! With more leverage you need less feather!! And for me personally, this, along with coming out of paradox quicker is a bigger selling point than the penetration!

This is indeed "why." ^^^^^