2 lost elk and conclusions.

[wind gypsy]

My elk last year from a 7mm with 2800 FPS MV. Bullet was found in hide just in front of the other shoulder. Definitely should have used a 300 or 338, almost didn’t have enough energy or knock down power..

 

[amassi]

My elk last year from a 7mm with 2800 FPS MV. Bullet was found in hide just in front of the other shoulder. Definitely should have used a 300 or 338, almost didn’t have enough energy or knock down power..

Better check the freezer, steaks might not be extra dead.

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[WyoKid]

It is tough to get a perfect broadside shot. Behind the crease might but you too far back if you misjudge the wind down range or he takes a step. I learned to line my vertical sight line with the front leg and put the horizontal 1/3 to 1/2 up. But if angling away, I use the far sided front leg as reference to visualize hitting both lungs.

Shot Placement on Alaskan Game, Alaska Department of Fish and Game

Information on hunting and trapping in Alaska.

www.adfg.alaska.gov

I never aim off hair....if you have to hold that high, you are likely to misjudge and shoot over or you need to get closer.

Shot placement - Wild Deer Best Practice Guidance

Anatomy and bullet damage Aim The aim of this guide is to provide information on the anatomy of deer and the consequences of bullet damage, to enable shots to be placed which: Achieve rapid death; Minimise suffering Avoid carcass contamination The BP Firearms guides are an essential...

www.bestpracticeguides.org.uk

 

[WyoKid]

 

[mt100gr.]

Trained my dog to blood trail a bit, just for my own use if I ever needed it. A few folks know that and I am amazed at the number of calls I get wanting me to help locate wounded elk. It has to be the number one wounded animal in our state. No input as to why that is, just always amazes me at how many are lost.

Interesting.

Hunters get so jizzed up when they have elk in their scope that shot placement takes a back seat to getting lead down range. Excitement rules the encounter and when the smoke clears they sometimes don't even have a clue which way the critter was facing. I've heard way to many bowhunters recap an elk encounter with "I don't even know which pin I used. But the shot felt good". I'd wager the clouded judgment carries over to rifle hunters as well.

Shot placement is the likely culprit.

 

[eyeguy]

Saw some talk about 7mm 175 partitions. So thought I would throw my limited experiences in. The most massive wound channels I have seen were with a 7mm weatherby mag shooting 175 partitions on a whitetail and a 250 gr nosler partition out of a 338 win mag on a raghorn bull. So my point is heavy for caliber partions seem to be good medicine.

 

[204guy]

The fact is a larger heavier bullet does compensate. If you butchered and been part of boning out ton of elk you would understand.

It makes a difference.



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Nice passive aggressive insult, but I'm comfortable with my experience on elk. Generalities like larger heavier bullet dont actually mean anything. What bullet, what weight, what impact velocity? That's a good starting point to meaningful discussion. Take a 300 wm and 200 gr bullets @2500fps impact. A 200 A-frame is going to be a narrow very deep wound cavity. Now a 200 eldx is going to be a shallow very wide wound cavity, extremely so compared to the A-frame. Obviosly opposite ends of the bullet spectrum, but vastly different wounding from the same cartridge and bullet weight.

Anyways we can agree to disagree. I dont think the little bit of extra tissue damage bigger cartridges gain offsets the difficulty in shooting those same cartridges well. I think most guys would be far better off stepping down in recoil and getting a whole lot more practical field practice.

 

[Marble]

Nice passive aggressive insult, but I'm comfortable with my experience on elk. Generalities like larger heavier bullet dont actually mean anything. What bullet, what weight, what impact velocity? That's a good starting point to meaningful discussion. Take a 300 wm and 200 gr bullets @2500fps impact. A 200 A-frame is going to be a narrow very deep wound cavity. Now a 200 eldx is going to be a shallow very wide wound cavity, extremely so compared to the A-frame. Obviosly opposite ends of the bullet spectrum, but vastly different wounding from the same cartridge and bullet weight.

Anyways we can agree to disagree. I dont think the little bit of extra tissue damage bigger cartridges gain offsets the difficulty in shooting those same cartridges well. I think most guys would be far better off stepping down in recoil and getting a whole lot more practical field practice.

Hey man sorry! I reread it and it was totally bitchy. My bad.

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[T28w]

here ya go....

Fake news

 

[Marble]

Nice passive aggressive insult, but I'm comfortable with my experience on elk. Generalities like larger heavier bullet dont actually mean anything. What bullet, what weight, what impact velocity? That's a good starting point to meaningful discussion. Take a 300 wm and 200 gr bullets @2500fps impact. A 200 A-frame is going to be a narrow very deep wound cavity. Now a 200 eldx is going to be a shallow very wide wound cavity, extremely so compared to the A-frame. Obviosly opposite ends of the bullet spectrum, but vastly different wounding from the same cartridge and bullet weight.

Anyways we can agree to disagree. I dont think the little bit of extra tissue damage bigger cartridges gain offsets the difficulty in shooting those same cartridges well. I think most guys would be far better off stepping down in recoil and getting a whole lot more practical field practice.

I dont have much to say about the A frames. Been shooting bonded bullets for so long i can't recall anyone in my group shooting them since the late 90s. I understand the why behind the design. But choose the bonded bullets.

The copper bullets do pretty good, but I have been more impressed with the bonded bullets. Haven't killed anything at distance with coppers, but in CA at shorter ranges, they have done well.

With the exception of the 300 RUM, I haven't had a gun that made me flinch. That gun would tip a chronograph over at 10', or blow the top baffles off. The muzzle brake made gigantic difference but was so deafening I won't shoot it anymore without ear plugs. I now carry ear plugs and for the last several years have been able to plan it out well enough to use them. It has killed a few elk where other bullets IME wouldn't have continued through the animals and damaged enough to recover quickly or at all.

I could probably get away with lighter bullets and limit my range a bit. But won't unless I have to. The gun is too deadly accurate and powerful where it's at to mess with it.

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[204guy]

I dont have much to say about the A frames. Been shooting bonded bullets for so long i can't recall anyone in my group shooting them since the late 90s. I understand the why behind the design. But choose the bonded bullets.

The copper bullets do pretty good, but I have been more impressed with the bonded bullets. Haven't killed anything at distance with coppers, but in CA at shorter ranges, they have done well.

With the exception of the 300 RUM, I haven't had a gun that made me flinch. That gun would tip a chronograph over at 10', or blow the top baffles off. The muzzle brake made gigantic difference but was so deafening I won't shoot it anymore without ear plugs. I now carry ear plugs and for the last several years have been able to plan it out well enough to use them. It has killed a few elk where other bullets IME wouldn't have continued through the animals and damaged enough to recover quickly or at all.

I could probably get away with lighter bullets and limit my range a bit. But won't unless I have to. The gun is too deadly accurate and powerful where it's at to mess with it.

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We're good man.

If its working for you that's great, don't change anything. I wouldn't.

But the OP's point was .270's- even with monos, are too small for elk. Need to up the HP. I can't agree, if we're not talking some extremes like angles or distances, uping the cartridge (and recoil) isn't the solution. It's counterproductive to putting bullets in the right spot. I didn't see anything in his given experiences where the limits of the 270 where even close to stretched.

Ps. A-frames are bonded. Same general concept as a partition with the front half bonded. Making them a bit harder than similar partitions.

 

[Formidilosus]

This thread is closing in on having it all- unrecovered animals and blaming cartridges, “ft-lbs energy”, “moving so fast didn’t expand”, edge shooting animals and and mythical magical elk lungs.

Weird things happen when killing whether it’s from the animals or from the projectiles. If you haven’t seen that, you need to kill more. I’ve killed bulls with 300 mags that took 4 rounds in the chest before stopping from a spine shot, and I’ve shot bulls 4 times in the chest with 6.5’s before they stopped.
Before my first elk all I heard was how “tough” they are and how they are somehow different than other game. It was silly then, and it’s silly now. They die from exactly the same mechanisms that any other creature does- asphyxiation, hemorrhaging, CNS damage. But, they have large lungs and more total blood and it takes longer for them to asphyxiate or bleed out from the same damage than a deer. Big deal. If people actually understood terminal ballistics and animal physiology these conversations wouldn’t happen.

 

[bummer7580]

It's probably time to let this thread die guys. Original intent was not to put down any one's choice of cartridge or experience. I mentioned my personal preferences and it has been pointed out I'm delusional and don't understand elk anatomy. Go back and reread original post. I believe in each of the 3 botched hunts I indicated it was "pilot" error responsible for the lost elk.

 

[Michael54]

Definitely a great elk setup and it sounds like a good shot by the damage done. Another example of how tough elk are and why people convincing themselves that light calibers are good enough is not the way to think. If you hit a deer like that with that gun he wouldn’t have taken one step.

Not true lol ive had doe witetail make it over 400 yards missing the lungs and heart from a 65 yard broadside shot with 160gr gamekings out of my 7mm mag. Sometimes theres no rhyme nor reason

 

[Marble]

We're good man.

If its working for you that's great, don't change anything. I wouldn't.

But the OP's point was .270's- even with monos, are too small for elk. Need to up the HP. I can't agree, if we're not talking some extremes like angles or distances, uping the cartridge (and recoil) isn't the solution. It's counterproductive to putting bullets in the right spot. I didn't see anything in his given experiences where the limits of the 270 where even close to stretched.

Ps. A-frames are bonded. Same general concept as a partition with the front half bonded. Making them a bit harder than similar partitions.

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[4rcgoat]

My son killed his first bull last weekend,150 grain nosler out of a 270@300 yards. Pulled his legs out from under him,never took another step........shot placement.

 

[ArcherAdam]

I shot my first elk this year at 358 yards with my 30-06 shooting 165 accubond handloads. I was very surprised how tough elk are. Though not a huge bull, I am sure it was still 3-4 years old and atleast 500#. I entered behind the shoulder and my bullet was stuck in the opposite hide after breaking ribs. What amazed me was I hit it on the first shot. It raised its front hoof like a pointing bird dog. It then started to walk. Embarrassingly I missed 3x as it was walking away trying to anchor it. It walked around 50 yards total and fell over. I was amazed that an animal could just walk off a shot like that. Had me thinking whether I should try 180s but not sure if 15 grains would be noticeable? First pic is the entrance and the 2nd is where the exit would have been.

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[AaronMColeman]

I shot my first elk this year at 358 yards with my 30-06 shooting 165 accubond handloads. I was very surprised how tough elk are. Though not a huge bull, I am sure it was still 3-4 years old and atleast 500#. I entered behind the shoulder and my bullet was stuck in the opposite hide after breaking ribs. What amazed me was I hit it on the first shot. It raised its front hoof like a pointing bird dog. It then started to walk. Embarrassingly I missed 3x as it was walking away trying to anchor it. It walked around 50 yards total and fell over. I was amazed that an animal could just walk off a shot like that. Had me thinking whether I should try 180s but not sure if 15 grains would be noticeable? First pic is the entrance and the 2nd is where the exit would have been.

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I normally shoot same setup of 30-06 wirh 165 accubond. This year i shot mine with 300wm using a 180 accubond. No exit wound either from 250y. I’ve seen the same bullet, same gun, similar placement, same distance, put a softball size exit wound on opposite side. I’ve also seen my 30-06 knock an elk down in 1 shot many times.

What does that mean? I don’t know.

I’m a good shooter and spend a lot of time at the range. Placement over bigger round, bigger round over smaller . That’s kinda my take. And 30-06 is plenty of gun. 6.5CM is too...I just think placement over bigger round, bigger round over smaller. Find the sweet spot where you can place the bullet where you want with the most powerful round you can do it wirh (within reason, a 50bmg is probably overkill).

 

[kipper09]

I shot my first elk this year at 358 yards with my 30-06 shooting 165 accubond handloads. I was very surprised how tough elk are. Though not a huge bull, I am sure it was still 3-4 years old and atleast 500#. I entered behind the shoulder and my bullet was stuck in the opposite hide after breaking ribs. What amazed me was I hit it on the first shot. It raised its front hoof like a pointing bird dog. It then started to walk. Embarrassingly I missed 3x as it was walking away trying to anchor it. It walked around 50 yards total and fell over. I was amazed that an animal could just walk off a shot like that. Had me thinking whether I should try 180s but not sure if 15 grains would be noticeable? First pic is the entrance and the 2nd is where the exit would have been.

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I’ll mirror this. I killed my first bull this year. Shot him with 180 grain accubond out of a 30-06 fieldcraft. Shot was 225 yards, and I hit him right behind the shoulder. He turned and ran like I never touched him. I shot him 3 times after that, 2 of which were in a 3-4” circle right behind the opposite shoulder. The last one through the front shoulder and he still didn’t go down immediately after that. All shots were under 350 yards. I was really surprised how tough they are and how much they can take and keep going. I know the 30-06 is plenty of rifle and would take it again but given the chance i would choose a 300 wm or bigger. I almost took my 270 fieldcraft and was really glad I didn’t. I know many elk have been taken with 270 and even 6.5 but when I go I’ll be toting a 30 caliber for sure.


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[robby denning]

I would love to see this thread go in the learning direction vs. the slamming on bad shooters/small calibers direction.

I just got here and don’t have time to read through the whole thread, but this is the posting guideline right here.

Let’s not have to delete another thread that could be very helpful


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