.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

[Huntsalot]

I shot a big doe on Sunday with a .223 Federal Tactical 77 TMK. 100yd shot. Small entrance and the bullet was resting underneath the hide on the far shoulder. Very minimal blood trail but the deer only went 30-40yds on a death run. Lungs were jello.

 

[Formidilosus]

You’re correct to a point. It’s like the analyst question my wife’s asks. “How the heck did pioneers feed their families with worn 36 cal rifles and no CLP fir lube”? Lol
Old Paco the lever rifle guru kept venison on the table back in his impoverished days with 38 spl hand cast out of a worn out ‘92 lever gun.
So I’d suspect an accurate high velocity 224 will put em on the table with a reasonably talented rifleman.

The problem with the 77gr SMK (SMK’s and some other OTM’s in general), isn’t wound channel size- it’s variability. Sometimes they upset nearly ideally- yawing and beginning to fragment within an inch of penetration, creating a wide wound. Sometimes they penetrate 3-6” then yaw and fragment. But just as often they penetrate 5-6” yaw and do not fragment appreciably.

I have killed hundreds with SMK’s, including a bunch with MK262 Mod1 and variability in tissue is the main reason I don’t prefer them.

75gr Hornady HPBT are more consistent in tissue and a better choice for that reason. They still often produce a longer neck length in tissue than ideal, but generally do fragment.

 

[ACHILLES]

.

 

[Hoove]

My loads forced some reason are a bit more accurate with the Hornady’s than the SMK.
However I’ve missed most of our deer season so may try alternative methods next month with my Super Blackhawk and 240 XTPs.

 

[fwafwow]

80 yards 223 Stand 1 Armory 223 TMK. DRT. Entry wound is on the right. The left isn’t an exit wound - it didn’t exit.

 

[Castle Rock]

You’re correct to a point. It’s like the analyst question my wife’s asks. “How the heck did pioneers feed their families with worn 36 cal rifles and no CLP fir lube”? Lol
Old Paco the lever rifle guru kept venison on the table back in his impoverished days with 38 spl hand cast out of a worn out ‘92 lever gun.
So I’d suspect an accurate high velocity 224 will put em on the table with a reasonably talented rifleman.

Why bother with the deflection, just own the fact that you were wrong

 

[Hoove]

Appears you don’t know what deflection is.
Thanks for playing.

 

[PNWGATOR]

Appears you don’t know what deflection is.
Thanks for playing.

Do you have objective, first hand experience to contribute?

Sincere question.

You come off as a tool in your posts. Know you don’t intend to, but you do.

Look forward to your experience elevating this thread.

 

[Hoove]

I’m the tool responding to contentious remarks? Okay
I’m told I’m deflecting when I use direct and indirect examples.
And apparently there’s photo evidence of my opinion. In fact a good friend on here had his son bag an elk today with a 223.

 

[Hoove]

I would still like to know terminal comparison between the Hornady 75gr M and the 77 gr Sierra which is what I asked, not whether anyone believes them to be good hunting bullets.

Do you have objective, first hand experience to contribute?

Sincere question.

You come off as a tool in your posts. Know you don’t intend to, but you do.

Look forward to your experience elevating this thread.

 

[ThatDUDE]

I would still like to know terminal comparison between the Hornady 75gr M and the 77 gr Sierra which is what I asked, not whether anyone believes them to be good hunting bullets.

The problem with the 77gr SMK (SMK’s and some other OTM’s in general), isn’t wound channel size- it’s variability. Sometimes they upset nearly ideally- yawing and beginning to fragment within an inch of penetration, creating a wide wound. Sometimes they penetrate 3-6” then yaw and fragment. But just as often they penetrate 5-6” yaw and do not fragment appreciably.

I have killed hundreds with SMK’s, including a bunch with MK262 Mod1 and variability in tissue is the main reason I don’t prefer them.

75gr Hornady HPBT are more consistent in tissue and a better choice for that reason. They still often produce a longer neck length in tissue than ideal, but generally do fragment.

This seems like it may answer your question.

 

[PNWGATOR]

I would still like to know terminal comparison between the Hornady 75gr M and the 77 gr Sierra which is what I asked, not whether anyone believes them to be good hunting bullets.

What do you have to contribute to this thread?

Looking forward to your contribution.

 

[The Guide]

Oh boy...

He quoted himself...

Just need him to say "Suck it"...

Jay

 

[2y2c]

I’ve seen all the pictures and shot a deer with it, and read as much as I could find about the terminal performance. But for some reason, it’s nice to validate it first hand.
Another data point. 77 TMK, 2460 impact velocity out of a 223. Cow elk. She ran for about 5 seconds and dropped. Big entrance wound (straight on a rib) and great damage to both lungs. There was only an entrance wound on the second lung. It didn’t make it to the other side of the ribs.

If the impact velocity had been lower - like near the 1800fps threshold, would the results have been mostly the same? It’s been a couple months since I read the thread all the way through and this may have been addressed before.

 

[BAC]

From what I'm reading yes. It seems that 1800fps mark is more of a safety-net than a hard floor because there are a number of animals shot south of that speed exhibiting almost, if not exactly, the same wounds. 2460fps makes me think a pretty short-range shot or a 22cm or something a bit hotter?

 

[2y2c]

Entrance through ribs in the first picture, chest cavity in second, lungs in third

 

[2y2c]

From what I'm reading yes. It seems that 1800fps mark is more of a safety-net than a hard floor because there are a number of animals shot south of that speed exhibiting almost, if not exactly, the same wounds. 2460fps makes me think a pretty short-range shot or a 22cm or something a bit hotter?

185yds, 223 with 22” barrel

 

[BAC]

Seems fast. What's your mv? Maybe I'm just confused because I've been mostly paying attention to 16-18" barrels lol.

 

[2y2c]

In the spirit of the thread, I wanted to go the same route as the OP. He and the rest of the people validating that choice have convinced me. I saw the impact on the elk, had another round in the chamber right after and was ready for a follow up if necessary.
My experience this year with a 223 and this bullet has been all I could hope for. Two kills done as cleanly and ethically as you can, very little meat damage, and catastrophic damage to the vitals. And I’ve had a blast shooting, too. I’ve put more rounds through this gun than any other hunting rifle I’ve owned by a long shot.

 

[2y2c]

Seems fast. What's your mv? Maybe I'm just confused because I've been mostly paying attention to 16-18" barrels lol.

2860. Blc2. I had my gunsmith ream a longer throat and the bullet is sitting out a ways. I could be wrong on the muzzle velocity, but I changed it to match what I was dialing for impacts at 550 and 600 using the bc’s listed for the tmk