.243 Light Load Question

[MattB]

In an effort to find a hunting load for my recoil-sensitive 12 y/o daugher, I loaded up some 71 gr. Hammer Sledge Hammers over 34 grs. of H4895 (Winchester brass, CCI LRM primers). My goal based on an online load calculator was to get to ~3,000 fps (starting load data shows 3,286 at 36.0 grs). At the range the chrono showed velocities from 1,990 to 2,425 fps (extremely wide spread) and nowhere near the velocity that the calculator had suggested. Surprisingly, accuracy at 100 yards was good.

Ordinarily I would doubt the chrony but I shot some 6.5CM through it afterwards and it read roughly expected velocities w/ minimal velocity deviation.

Based on that experience I have a few questions:
1) Working up from the 60% load for 4895, I realize that there will be a lot of air space in the case. Could the variability of how the powder sits inside the case create that much velocity variance? 34 hrs. isn't that far off the 36 gr. starting load, so that seems odd.
2) I seated the bullets out fairly far. I don't have the measured length on hand, but the first convolution on the bullet was outside the case mouth. Could that possibly cause the reduction/variability in velocity? I can't see how that would be the case.
3) Does anyone have any alternate powder recommendations for a light .243 load? The listed min velocity for.most powders is quite a bit faster than I desire.

 

[desertcj]

In an effort to find a hunting load for my recoil-sensitive 12 y/o daugher, I loaded up some 71 gr. Hammer Sledge Hammers over 34 grs. of H4895 (Winchester brass, CCI LRM primers). My goal based on an online load calculator was to get to ~3,000 fps (starting load data shows 3,286 at 36.0 grs). At the range the chrono showed velocities from 1,990 to 2,425 fps (extremely wide spread) and nowhere near the velocity that the calculator had suggested. Surprisingly, accuracy at 100 yards was good.

Ordinarily I would doubt the chrony but I shot some 6.5CM through it afterwards and it read roughly expected velocities w/ minimal velocity deviation.

Based on that experience I have a few questions:
1) Working up from the 60% load for 4895, I realize that there will be a lot of air space in the case. Could the variability of how the powder sits inside the case create that much velocity variance? 34 hrs. isn't that far off the 36 gr. starting load, so that seems odd.
2) I seated the bullets out fairly far. I don't have the measured length on hand, but the first convolution on the bullet was outside the case mouth. Could that possibly cause the reduction/variability in velocity? I can't see how that would be the case.
3) Does anyone have any alternate powder recommendations for a light .243 load? The listed min velocity for.most powders is quite a bit faster than I desire.

Yes, light charges can cause unstable velocities. If it's that far under the velocity you're aiming for, just increase the powder charge till you see the speed you want.

 

[cnelk]

First I would adjust the bullet so it just barely touches the lands.

I use Varget in both of my 243s.

The 243 is a fast cartridge to start with, why slow it down?
The 71gr bullet will basically have no recoil so that shouldnt be a problem

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Up the powder to reach consistent velocities you are looking for and go with whatever that ends up being.

 

[MattB]

First I would adjust the bullet so it just barely touches the lands.

I use Varget in both of my 243s.

The 243 is a fast cartridge to start with, why slow it down?
The 71gr bullet will basically have no recoil so that shouldnt be a problem

Recoil is highly subjective. My daughter is jarred by full power .243 loads, so I'd rather find a softer load than have her not want to shoot.

 

[bdan68]

My daughter is almost 14 now but two years ago I started her off with reduced loads in her 7mm-08. I'm loading 120 grain bullets with 25 grains of IMR 4227. It's a great powder for reduced loads. For hunting loads only I use 38 grains of IMR 3031, and even that it is a very mild load but at 2800 fps it works great, and when shooting at an animal my daughter doesn't notice the additional recoil.

For the 243 I just looked at my IMR loading data and it shows 25.0 grains of IMR 4227 with an 80 grain bullet gets 2,695 fps. This is a maximum charge. I would probably start at about 22 grains and go up from there until you get the best accuracy. Even at the max charge of 25.0 that will recoil very little.

 

[bdan68]

Another reduced load I just came across is from Speer data, which can be found online.

This is for a 90 grain bullet but should be fine with the 77 grain. They are using Accurate 5744, minimum charge 21.0 grains for 2,105 fps and a Max charge of 23.0 for 2,273.

 

[BRTreedogs]

No idea how the recoil would be in your rifle.
But my 243 load is 38 grns H4895 Berger 108 @2600 fps.

Do you think you have the bullet so far out that neck tension is variable?

Maybe your chrono is having a hard time picking up the smaller bullet? Try coloring the bullets w a black sharpie. That's what I had to do when I chronograph my 243.

 

[mtswampfox]

wanted the same end results. Had a 6TCU barrel made for my encore.
the nuts!

 

[MattB]

Guys, thanks for the insights.

No idea how the recoil would be in your rifle.
But my 243 load is 38 grns H4895 Berger 108 @2600 fps.

Do you think you have the bullet so far out that neck tension is variable?

Maybe your chrono is having a hard time picking up the smaller bullet? Try coloring the bullets w a black sharpie. That's what I had to do when I chronograph my 243.

On the neck tension, that is what I am wondering - although the bullet is not touching the lands and fits in the mag with room to spare so I am guessing it is seated deeply enough. Hammer bullets are all new to me, but they are reputed to be very insensitive to seating depth do I will def go deeper on the next batch. Not that it means anything, but I was encouraged when the first shot at 100 yards literally 12 ringed the target dot (sighted in for Barnes 80 gr. TTSX factory loads).

I may have to try coloring the bullet, as I struggle to believe the ~425 fps difference from shot to shot, esp. when the load is only 2 grs. below the min. starting load. The chrony was in the shade due to the range configuration.

 

[Dualsight]

Your daughter may give up shooting altogether if her tolerance for recoil exceeds her desire to shoot or hunt; so good for you to acknowledge her sensitivity and do your best to accommodate her.

The first idea that came to mind is the use of a filler to keep the powder against the primer and to produce consistent pressure, velocity, and extreme spread. Before responding, I spent a couple of hours browsing the internet forums on this subject. In summary the following are a consistent consensus:

• Use a powder to fill the case as much as possible while still producing the lightest load as opposed to using a filler, or:
  • Use a position insensitive powder to prevent excessive pressure and large velocity swings.
• Cream of wheat, an old standby from decades ago, is okay in straight wall cases but not to be used in bottle neck cases; Dacron was the choice for bottle neck cases when filler was used. Also, never “pack” Dacron, use just enough to keep the powder in place against the primer.
• Most people using fillers used cast bullets as opposed to jacketed bullets. Cast bullets produced lowered pressures than jacketed. Beware when finding load data online which type of bullet was used to create the recipe.

The best response/explanation/guide I found to your goal for a light load can be found (initial thread poster "kdub"):

https://www.shootersforum.com/tech-notes/13718-fill-not-fill-case-enigma.html

 

[tdot]

I was just talking to the loading guru at the range about developing a reduced recoil load for my brother whose developed a heck of a flinch. So need to find something that can help him get rid of the flinch. He suggested using magnum primers if there isnt enough powder in the case to get consistent ignition. I havent yet tried that suggestion.

But given the similarities of the impacts on target, I would really be looking at the Chrono. How heavy was the 6.5cm bullet? Maybe load up a known 243 load and test that over the chrono to confirm accurate readings, before working on a ladder test.

Regarding the Hammers, they need to have a minimum of two, preferably three grooves inside the case.

 

[MattB]

I was just talking to the loading guru at the range about developing a reduced recoil load for my brother whose developed a heck of a flinch. So need to find something that can help him get rid of the flinch. He suggested using magnum primers if there isnt enough powder in the case to get consistent ignition. I havent yet tried that suggestion.

But given the similarities of the impacts on target, I would really be looking at the Chrono. How heavy was the 6.5cm bullet? Maybe load up a known 243 load and test that over the chrono to confirm accurate readings, before working on a ladder test.

Regarding the Hammers, they need to have a minimum of two, preferably three grooves inside the case.

Thanks for that. I used magnum primers as per Hammer's recommendation. All but 1 of the grooves in the case, so had that covered.

Even though the 127 gr. 6.5's registered as expected, I am starting to think it may in fact be the chrony and that I need to get it in full sun and/or sharpie the bullets for additional contrast.

 

[tdot]

After several wasted days and load development sessions going sideways, while using a borrowed Shooting Chrony, I ended up buying a Lab Radar. The initial purchase stung, but after factoring in my time and the more efficient load development that it has helped produce, overall I think it was good purchase.

 

[tyeager2964]

I load up 25 grains of H4895 in my son's 243 for practice. It produces minute of coke can at 100 yards which is my imposed limit for deer and sastifies his need for a blow up target. It chronos at 2400 or 2500 if I remember correctly using a magnetospeed. I use regular federal 210 large rifle primers

I would say that velocity spread is a Chrono issue assuming your reloading practice is good.

Also for anyone that says the 243 full loads don't recoil watch a 52 lb boy shoot it and tell me there is no recoil. He says it doesn't bother him but after 10 shots he is ready to move on. With the reduced loads he has run through 50 and asked for more.

For hunting we shoot Hornady custom light. It has a higher velocity and he has shot 20 with no complaints. The only reason I don't handload the hunting ammo is because I got lazy when he was shooting the light load so much and ran out of time.

 

[Justin Crossley]

I would go down a different road personally. Install a good side port muzzle brake and that .243 will be so much fun your daughter won't want to stop shooting. My son is 13 now and shoots everything from his .243 to 300 WM's without issue. I don't think he's ever shot a rifle other than his .22 lr without a brake.

Here he is at 10 with his first deer. Shot at 525 yards thanks to 100's of rounds of practice. The practice made possible by a rifle with no recoil that fit him properly.

 

[tdot]

I would go down a different road personally. Install a good side port muzzle brake and that .243 will be so much fun your daughter won't want to stop shooting. My son is 13 now and shoots everything from his .243 to 300 WM's without issue. I don't think he's ever shot a rifle other than his .22 lr without a brake.

Here he is at 10 with his first deer. Shot at 525 yards thanks to 100's of rounds of practice. The practice made possible by a rifle with no recoil that fit him properly.

That's awesome! Congrats to both you and your son.

Any tips for getting a youngster started? Age? Where did you find the stock? I have a 2 year old and a 6 month old, so I'm a bit early, but pretty excited to get him into it. My Father in Law wants to start them with WW2 '06's etc. I want to be well prepared and ahead of this family feud

(Sorry for the thread drift)

 

[tyeager2964]

I started Mason at 3 with a BB gun to teach the basics of holding and handling. At four he got a Savage 22lr because the bolt is removable and the safety is the same as regular bolt guns. I gave him the gun and removed the bolt. Since he has been four the gun has stayed in a soft case in his room obviously non functional. He can look at it, clean it, practice aiming without permission. I don't want firearms to be taboo. Bolt and ammo stay in the gun case.

It's never too early to learn firearms safety and in my opinion opinion hands on lessons are the best way to learn.

 

[THunt]

I did a bunch of research on this subject after messing up with my oldest daughter and losing a bunch of her youth hunting years to a lack of desire to deal with recoil. I did load development and my son can shoot as many as a bring to the range. I just posted my load in another thread about light 243 bullets. Look at Trailboss powder and lightweight varmint bullets. Trailboss is a low energy powder and its reportedly impossible to overload a bottle necked cartridge with it, but you dont have the airspace/filler problem. Let me know if you're interested and if you can't find the other thread.

 

[MattB]

Thanks everyone for your input. My daughter and I hit the range yesterday and she was on board with 55 and 71 gr. Bullets over 33-34 grs. of H4895. I think that the hammer 71 gr. At ~3,000 fps should do the trick on smaller hogs at 100-150 yards.