5x5 guys, what do you do on you off days?

[jwatts]

I have been doing the Stronglifts 5x5 for several weeks now. It is starting to get tough on some of the workouts but I can tell it is working. A few friends and myself do the 5x5 workouts on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I have been doing some form of cardio on those days as well. It usually ends up being a few miles on the elliptical or running on the road. Tuesdays and Thursdays I usually make a 4 to 6 mile run on the road. Saturdays I usually run too. I occasionally replace the run with a bike ride, running stairs, or a weighted pack hike. My question is, do any of you that do the 5x5 do anything on your off days? I was thinking of doing some form of body weight exercises on there along with my cardio but I am not sure if that is advised or not.

 

[Ridge Ghost]

Keep rest days as rest days. Lifting programs include them for a reason, and if you throw in extra workouts on your days off it will likely mess with your recovery and gains. Go for a walk around the block, shoot your bow, or anything that gets you outside without being too strenuous. You can be active on your rest days, but don't turn it into a workout.

 

[jwatts]

That makes sense. I knew they were meant to give the muscle groups you are working a rest. I guess those workouts work enough muscle groups at once to warrant a full day off.

 

[Poser]

5x5 is super grueling. If you don't take those recovery days more seriously, it's going to catch up with you at some point. 4-6 miles runs are definitely not what you want to be doing.

That said, you can do some low impact interval training on some of those rest days depending on these factors:

Age?
Height & Weight?
Amount of sleep each night? How good is your diet and how much are you eating?

 

[jwatts]

5x5 is super grueling. If you don't take those recovery days more seriously, it's going to catch up with you at some point. 4-6 miles runs are definitely not what you want to be doing.

That said, you can do some low impact interval training on some of those rest days depending on these factors:

Age?
Height & Weight?
Amount of sleep each night? How good is your diet and how much are you eating?

35yo
6ft 187 to 190lb
I get 7 to 9 hours a night of sleep on average.
I try to stay at 2500 calories a day and rarely go over. There are times I am under. I don't eat the absolute cleanest that I could but I stay with the healthiest choices I can for the most part.

At first I could barely stand to run when I started the 5x5. My calves killed me. I wasn't used to doing squats and running. I got through the tenseness in my calves and got back in the stride of running again. I typically run some kind of race once a month. In April I did a 5k road race and an 8k trail run. In May I am signed up for a 10k road race and may do a 5k as well. I mainly run to stay tuned up for those and to keep my level of cardio where I want it to be. I don't think it would kill me to lay off the running some though.

 

[WoodBow]

I dont follow a program but 5x5 is the how i format my sets. I usually go 3-5 days before rest, just depending on how i feel. I play soccer every Sunday and do not lift.

 

[Ironman8]

Personally, I do Wendler's 5/3/1 for a reason...because its low enough volume to allow me to do all the other oly lifting, cardio, metcons, and accessory work that I do and still able to recover from day to day, all while still allowing me to gain strength in my lifts. I have Thursdays as an active recovery run (can sub in a swim) at about 2-3 miles (~10:00 pace) and Sunday is a full day rest.

That said, you just need to listen to your body. If you feel recovered enough and aren't getting signs of "over training", then your work load probably isn't too high, and I would continue doing things on your off days. I put quotation marks around that because I believe that if you're not on a pro athlete level, then (typically) it's not "over training", but rather UNDER-Recovery...just work up your volume slowly and you'll be fine.

Does 5x5 have programmed De-load weeks? I can't remember...if they do then great, but if not, consider working a de-load week in every 4-6 weeks.

 

[jwatts]

Does 5x5 have programmed De-load weeks? I can't remember...if they do then great, but if not, consider working a de-load week in every 4-6 weeks.

It doesn't have deload weeks. It adds weight every workout and only levels off or deloads if you fail to complete a workout.

As of right now I have only seen signs of over training, or more likely under recovery. I did my 5x5 in the morning then went turkey hunting and walked 3 miles. When I came out of the woods my wife wanted to go to the gym so I did a 5k on the treadmill. Later that day I got a new pair of running shoes and wanted to try them out. 7 miles later I was satisfied they were going to work. It took me a few days to get over that one but I honestly pushed it too hard on that last run and knew it.

 

[Poser]

I'll say this:

1. at 35, you're definitely out of your "metabolic golden years". You are also like at or very close to a significant metabolic slowdown. Its common around 35 or so, though can come much later or much earlier for different people. Its not the end of the world as you can be in great shape for the rest of you life, just going to take more recovery and less volume than you used to do.

2. If you are doing the Stronglifts 5x5 with the specific intention of getting stronger, you need to eat more. It is really difficult to increase strength considerably without a *surplus* of calories. Realistically, you probably need another 1,000 calories a day to effectively support that program.

3. 9 hours of sleep is good. 10 is better. 8 is absolute minimum. The older you get, the more important this will become. Note these are hours of sleep not hours laying in bed.

4. I did a similar linear progression strength program back in Jan and Feb. I'm 6'1/ 190#, 40 years old, so very similar stats. I was putting down about 4,000 calories a day including a half a gallon of whole milk. I put on about 8 lbs during the cycle and my backsquat increased 75 pounds. I've since lost 8 pounds and backsquat dropped back down 30-40 lbs as I haven't been eating as much and doing much more conditioning volume. Anyway, during the strength cycle, I did 2 HIIT sessions per week on recovery days from the strength sessions. These were short, 15 minute sessions that involved movements that would not impede recovery: Double Unders, KB swings and rowing sprints. Pushing the prowler around in short bursts or an Assault Bike or Ski Erg (if you have access to them) can be good, too. Doing a 5x5 linear progression strength cycle, especially beyond your 20s, you're just going to be limited to how much conditioning volume you can effectively do. Sure, you can do a lot of conditioning -the temptation is to do as much as you are capable of squeezing in, but the real question is one of effectiveness. on 5x5 program, your backsquat should be seeing an increase of 10# per week. This is significant, but also the reason you do a program such as this.
If you are not seeing that, then some combination of insufficient sleep, too much volume, insufficient calories, insufficient recovery is at fault.

The most important thing to keep in mind is that you are not getting stronger, faster or increased endurance when you are working out. You get stronger, faster and more endurance when you are sleeping and eating. The training is the stimulation for that recovery and improvement to take place. Recovery is more important than the actual workout. Treat your sleep and eating with at least as much attention as you do your actual training.

 

[jwatts]

I'll say this:

1. at 35, you're definitely out of your "metabolic golden years". You are also like at or very close to a significant metabolic slowdown. Its common around 35 or so, though can come much later or much earlier for different people. Its not the end of the world as you can be in great shape for the rest of you life, just going to take more recovery and less volume than you used to do.

2. If you are doing the Stronglifts 5x5 with the specific intention of getting stronger, you need to eat more. It is really difficult to increase strength considerably without a *surplus* of calories. Realistically, you probably need another 1,000 calories a day to effectively support that program.

3. 9 hours of sleep is good. 10 is better. 8 is absolute minimum. The older you get, the more important this will become. Note these are hours of sleep not hours laying in bed.

4. I did a similar linear progression strength program back in Jan and Feb. I'm 6'1/ 190#, 40 years old, so very similar stats. I was putting down about 4,000 calories a day including a half a gallon of whole milk. I put on about 8 lbs during the cycle and my backsquat increased 75 pounds. I've since lost 8 pounds and backsquat dropped back down 30-40 lbs as I haven't been eating as much and doing much more conditioning volume. Anyway, during the strength cycle, I did 2 HIIT sessions per week on recovery days from the strength sessions. These were short, 15 minute sessions that involved movements that would not impede recovery: Double Unders, KB swings and rowing sprints. Pushing the prowler around in short bursts or an Assault Bike or Ski Erg (if you have access to them) can be good, too. Doing a 5x5 linear progression strength cycle, especially beyond your 20s, you're just going to be limited to how much conditioning volume you can effectively do. Sure, you can do a lot of conditioning -the temptation is to do as much as you are capable of squeezing in, but the real question is one of effectiveness. on 5x5 program, your backsquat should be seeing an increase of 10# per week. This is significant, but also the reason you do a program such as this.
If you are not seeing that, then some combination of insufficient sleep, too much volume, insufficient calories, insufficient recovery is at fault.

The most important thing to keep in mind is that you are not getting stronger, faster or increased endurance when you are working out. You get stronger, faster and more endurance when you are sleeping and eating. The training is the stimulation for that recovery and improvement to take place. Recovery is more important than the actual workout. Treat your sleep and eating with at least as much attention as you do your actual training.

That is some dang good information. I agree that my metabolism isn't what it used to be. In 2009 I decided to make a change and did the Power 90 program. I went from 212 to 177 over the course of 6 months. It made a world of difference. My son was born about the end of the 6 months and my priorities shifted. It wasn't long before my weight was back on, even with keeping some physical activity. In 2014 a group of us decided to make a trip to Colorado for a back country elk hunt. I got back after it and dropped from the low 200s into the high 170s again. I just didn't feel that healthy in the 170s. I have been maintaining around 190 ever since we got back. It has been fairly easy to do, but I have noticed that if I let my eating habits or exercise slip that the weight starts creeping back pretty fast. My physical activity has increased, my cardio is even better, and I just feel good if I maintain where I am now. When I lost all that weight that fast I lost a lot of strength. That is what I am trying to get back with the 5x5. It seems to be working so far.

I will start stepping up my calories and see if it will help out any with my gains. I have been increasing 5lbs per workout on each exercise except deadlifts. Deadlifts are 10lb per workout. I have only had to not step up twice. That was the same week I did 10 miles running in the same day as a 3 mile walk and lifting. It took me a few days to recover and set me back on my overhead press.

I figure my sleep will get better now that turkey season is over. I was up before 5, at the gym for 515 to 530, and in the woods before daylight almost every weekday during season. That put me a few hours behind on everything else I had going on that day and by default cut into my sleep.

 

[ScottinPA]

I started with SL5X5 last summer. Was running, biking, and swimming at same time - too much. Stopped everything in October thru December but did some research. From what I've read, SL5x5 is a variation of Starting Strength (some say SL ripped it off). I read the SS books and it definitely makes sense and has more detailed information than SL5x5. Anyway, ran SS from Jan thru April. For the past 3 weeks I've done a heavy linear progression on Monday (squat/bench/dead/dips/LTE) and an 80% squat (2sets of 8)/press/BBrow/chins/curls on Thursday. M-W-F I ride 45 min on trainer, Tuesday is treadmill intervals at 8min/mile, Thurs is treadmill longer run at 10min/mile. Plan to continue this for another month then add swims m-w-f. Also, Saturday is hiking (or turkey hunting) with a 40lb pack. This latest routine was suggested by a SS coach. As long as I keep calories up and get good sleep I can do the routine. For ref: 47 yrs old, 175lbs.

 

[jwatts]

I started with SL5X5 last summer. Was running, biking, and swimming at same time - too much. Stopped everything in October thru December but did some research. From what I've read, SL5x5 is a variation of Starting Strength (some say SL ripped it off). I read the SS books and it definitely makes sense and has more detailed information than SL5x5. Anyway, ran SS from Jan thru April. For the past 3 weeks I've done a heavy linear progression on Monday (squat/bench/dead/dips/LTE) and an 80% squat (2sets of 8)/press/BBrow/chins/curls on Thursday. M-W-F I ride 45 min on trainer, Tuesday is treadmill intervals at 8min/mile, Thurs is treadmill longer run at 10min/mile. Plan to continue this for another month then add swims m-w-f. Also, Saturday is hiking (or turkey hunting) with a 40lb pack. This latest routine was suggested by a SS coach. As long as I keep calories up and get good sleep I can do the routine. For ref: 47 yrs old, 175lbs.

I really need to get the Starting Strength books. I have heard from a lot of folks that it helped them figure out a routine. My goal for right now is to continue on the 5x5 at the progression I am at now until I reach body weight on my bench press. The other weights will fall wherever they are in the progression. After I get there I will make a decision on changing routines, maintaining, adding weight, etc.

 

[Poser]

I highly recommend that anyone serious about their training have copies of Starting Strength and Practical Programming in their library. The biggest difference between Ripptoe's programming philosophy and many other popular programs is that he has accumulated years of experience training average joe's walking in off the street. Many popular programs are formed and tested on results with division 1 athletes and professionals. For the rest of of us who don't have the gift of exceptional athleticism, are not 22 years old, and/or don't have a lifestyle that affords us 10 hours of sleep and no outside stress, the volume and intensity of these programs is often a overload. You do have to make peace with some of his terminology. For example, most people will be surprised to find that they fall into the "Advanced Novice" category and not "intermediate" despite years of training and lifting. There is something about the use of the word "novice" that people don't like even though it has nothing to do with your knowledge or experience in the case, rather your bodies ability to still produce gains in a sub-weekly linear progression. It also took me awhile to fully embrace the seemingly miniscule amount of deadlifting volume. The reasoning here is that Deadlifting is just hell on your body and CNS and requires much time to recover from. Even just a little bit of volume or intensity overload here will set you back.

I followed the Adv Novice program to the letter for 8 weeks in Jan & Feb. Squat went up 75 pounds. Deadlift went up 60 pounds. OH Press increased 20# and Bench Press was up 25#. I did light conditioning 2 days a week: KB Swings, Double Unders and/or rowing. It was great. I was setting new PRs weekly. I spent March focused on conditioning and getting back in shape there and have since reintegrated a good balance of conditioning + an altered version of the Adv Novice program that accounts for slower linear progression due to the amount of conditioning volume + some Oly Lifting. I can definitely see the benefits of running a pure strength cycle for a couple of months out of the year. It is hard to accept that you are going to lose some very hard earned muscle once you drop back into conditioning volume, but you will still carry a portion and reap the benefits of that improved strength with you as you move forward with other training goals.