7mm-08 vs 7mm RM reduced loads and recoil for kids.

[RSC12]

Hello,

I'm brand new to reloading so haven't played around yet. I'm also fairly new to shooting so feel free to school me on this subject.

I have 2 young daughters who I'm hoping to get into hunting/shooting as they get older. Currently they love shooting a .22 and have shot a .243 off a bench so we're not there yet, just preplanning.

I personally shoot a Tikka 7mm Rem Mag and was thinking of getting them into a Tikka 7mm-08 compact as they age. But I'm curious if I was able to purchase a Tikka compact stock and put it on my 7mm Rem Mag and then shoot lighter projectiles with reduced velocity if this would be comparable to a 7mm-08 in recoil.

Ie: would a 140g bullet at around 2700fps out of a 7mm rem mag or a 7mm-08 be the same recoil. Am I wrong in thinking its just physics or is their more to it?

Thanks for any and all advice.

 

[TaperPin]

The physics is almost the same - but the powder weight has to be added to the bullet, so at the same velocity the 7 mag will recoil slightly more.

One summer I shot a very nice 7 mag with reduced loads and the large amounts of pistol powder really ate up the throat. The barrel was noticeably less accurate after that summer, and that was the last reduced load in a rifle for me.

Now I’m back to plinking and practicing with a lighter caliber.

 

[TaperPin]

The physics is almost the same - but the powder weight has to be added to the bullet, so at the same velocity the 7 mag will recoil slightly more.

One summer I shot a very nice 7 mag with reduced loads and the large amounts of pistol powder really ate up the throat. The barrel was noticeably less accurate after that summer, and that was the last reduced load in a rifle for me. Starting loads with normal powder wouldn’t do that, just stay away from he very low velocity reduced loads and pistol powder.

Now I’m back to plinking and practicing with a lighter caliber.

 

[Rob5589]

What's wrong with the .243 you already have? I'd take a long look at the .223 thread, it's enlightening to say the least. That said forget the magnum reduced loads and just buy a rifle that they can manage. .223, 6mm something, 7/08, in that order.

As an aside, a 150 vs a 120 in the 7/08 has a noticeable, but not overly significant, difference in recoil impulse from my own experience.

 

[BAKPAKR]

If you decide to try reduced loads, find some H4895. I have attached a link to info on it.

Depending on the age/size of your girls, you might want to go with reduced loads even if you get a 7mm-08.

https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads.pdf

 

[aachey]

If the recoil is a big issue a 223 should be pretty ideal. I’d personally buy one with a faster twist to shoot heavier bullets. Ideally a 243 should be perfect, a quality bullet in the 70-85 grain range would be perfect for whitetails and manageable on recoil. I think with a 7mm08 you’d still have to run reduced loads to minimize recoil.

 

[49ereric]

Blue dot is the reduced king of powders IMO

 

[A382DWDZQ]

This is from the 2012 or 2009 Hodgdon’s Manual, article about MELs, Moderae effective loads. I’d reduce the 7/08 and it will shoot like the 243, then you can work up higher power loads for it later on if you need to, but if they are going to be < 300yd shooters, you might be fine leaving it as is.

 

[Pharmseller]

243

 

[wind gypsy]

If you already have a 243, I'd agree that is a good option for them as well. The question is can you get a shorter LOP stock on it like the tikka compact stock you mentioned.

 

[eric1115]

I know this isn't the answer to the question you asked, but I'll give my input on the topic overall anyway. I 100% believe that the 7mm-08 is more recoil than a child should be shooting. I've been there, done that, have 3 xxs t-shirts (and 3 more coming). My oldest son (14 now) got a 7mm-08 compact for his 10th birthday, and even with plenty of rimfire and .223 practice he still was developing bad habits if he shot the 7mm-08 very much. He liked it, wasn't scared of it, and has only gotten more competent with it, but I've come to understand that "able to tolerate the recoil" is not the same as "best thing to learn to be a rifleman on."

This was with 120gr loads (first the Hornady reduced recoil factory stuff, then a mild 120 Nosler BT handload).

Daughter (11) and son (9) both shoot the .223 much better than he did, and I've now got a Howa Mini in 6mm ARC for them and the next 3 to use and pass down. I am about 90% sure that the a .223 Tikka Compact would be a more practical choice for this rifle, but I like to tinker.

Oldest son is getting a RS special for Christmas this year, and I would give it about an 80% chance his 7mm-08 will get sold.

Read the .223 thread and the 6mm thread if you haven't; they are real eye openers. With the terminal performance available through a few different projectiles, I now firmly believe that there is absolutely no reason for a pre-teen or early teenage kid to be shooting a 140 (or even 120) grain projectile at high 2k fps speeds. Possible exception would be if you need to shoot monos, then a 127 LRX (or something along those lines) might be worthwhile. The idea that a 6.5CM is an ideal kid's deer rifle is now ridiculous to me after the last 5 years and 3 kids' worth of education.

 

[Vern400]

Hello,

I'm brand new to reloading so haven't played around yet. I'm also fairly new to shooting so feel free to school me on this subject.

I have 2 young daughters who I'm hoping to get into hunting/shooting as they get older. Currently they love shooting a .22 and have shot a .243 off a bench so we're not there yet, just preplanning.

I personally shoot a Tikka 7mm Rem Mag and was thinking of getting them into a Tikka 7mm-08 compact as they age. But I'm curious if I was able to purchase a Tikka compact stock and put it on my 7mm Rem Mag and then shoot lighter projectiles with reduced velocity if this would be comparable to a 7mm-08 in recoil.

Ie: would a 140g bullet at around 2700fps out of a 7mm rem mag or a 7mm-08 be the same recoil. Am I wrong in thinking its just physics or is their more to it?

Thanks for any and all advice.

Oh yes, it's all about physics. It's likely you'll need more powder in the 7 mm mag to achieve the same velocity. If the weight of the gun is fixed, felt recoil varies with bullet weight, velocity, and powder charge.

The 7mm-08 is a fine deer cartridge. With a light rifle you may find yourself loading 120s down to about 2400 ~2600 fps to keep recoil within reason for a small girl. Some tolerate it well, some don't.

There's absolutely no reason why a 7mm-08 couldn't be a lifetime rifle.

If you want to really have a hoot, get a can of trail Boss powder and teach them how to shoot subsonics out to 100 or 150 yards. If they can master subsonics at that range, they can shoot 400 yd with full power ammo and it's just a different dope chart. They'll have a good foundation. And it's so much fun being able to hear the bullet whack the target! I used an old water heater with my daughter, before I took it to the scrap yard. She Drew animals and dinosaurs and bad guys on it with a sharpie. I'm not sure if she enjoyed the artwork or the shooting more. I used a 7.62 bolt gun with cheap bullets and 14 grains of trail Boss with a magnum rifle primer. Surprisingly accurate unless windy

 

[kota]

I would keep with the 243, and start with reduced recoil loads in that. H4895 works great at around 60% of a max charge. That’s what my kids shoot.

Having taken a pile of deer and varmints with a 243 I can firmly say it’s plenty.

If you feel the need to buy a new rifle, I would get either a 6.5cm or 7-08, and load those down too.

 

[seand]

Powder charge weight is a big factor in recoil. A downloaded 7rm matching 7-08 velocity will be more recoil than a 7-08. I’d have them shooting a 223 or 6arc, if you have to go bigger to meet legal minimums for hunting I’d be loading Reduced recoil loads for 243

My 13yo daughter switched to a 6cm this year from 223/6arc and it’s a significant step up. Loading 200 fps below max, the reduced powder charge and the silencer really helps. She is shooting extremely well, and a big part of that is she has never shot anything with very much recoil. I won’t let her shoot a 7-08.

I think most dads make a mistake subjecting kids to recoil. Even a 7-08 is a lot when you factor for a kids body weight. A 90# kid shooting a 7-08 is basically like starting a new adult shooter that weighs 180# on a 338 win mag. Sure folks do it, but they don’t learn to shoot well.

 

[RSC12]

Thanks for all the replies, I definitely appreciate all the advice on this.

I think in reality I am probably way ahead of myself as far as the 7mm-08 goes for them. They are definitely pretty small statured and the last thing I want to do it scare them away or have them develop bad habits.

The 243 they shot was a friends and it was quite a heavy rifle so very mild recoil. But I might be better off buying our own 243 compact for now and have them learn on that. I'd like to get them a rifle that fits them which is why I keep leaning to the compact model. I guess I could always sell it and trade up in the future if they truly do love hunting/shooting. Thanks

 

[RSC12]

Thinking about this a little more would a Tikka 243 be able to convert to a 7mm-08 as the kids age? Do they not both have the same bolt face and action size?

 

[kota]

Thinking about this a little more would a Tikka 243 be able to convert to a 7mm-08 as the kids age? Do they not both have the same bolt face and action size?

Yes, very interchangeable between the 2.

As a side note, the tikka actions are the same size, so you could take out the bolt stops and go to a long action down the road too.

 

[PNWGATOR]

Skip the nonsense and put together a delivery system they’ll enjoy shooting.

Tikka .223 compact with a SWFA 6x mil/mil milquad reticle. Unknown Munitions rings. Done.

 

[JGRaider]

Tikka T3X, add a suppressor, load 120 BT's to 2600fps = deer killing machine with almost zero recoil.

 

[eric1115]

Pretty good info here that touches on a lot of these questions...

Help me decide next steps for my 13 year old

Ok, long advice post so be forewarned. @Formidilosus I would especially like your input on this. My 13, almost 14 year old son has a somewhat cobbled together setup, a 7mm-08 Ruger American compact with a SFP 2-10x Minox ZX5. I handload 120 Ballistic Tips for it. He shoots it well enough, but...

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