a new hunter 'advocacy' group

[bsnedeker]

That article screams I am another "Green Decoy" from the heart of WY left wing liberalism...Jackson Hole. You're pissed because you found 8 non residents on public land? If you're from Michigan, you can't be apart of their "team"? I have no idea what this individual is proposing to do, but it certainly isn't uniting all hunters. His message is, "Hunt according to my ethics. If you don't you aren't welcome and not a part of the team." He couldn't be more divisive if he tried. Elitist, better than though douchebag.

As suggested earlier, he should call Charles Post, the Berkley idiot from Sitka and add him as an ambassador. They can sit around a fake campfire (wouldn't want to contribute to global warming by having a real fire), drinking Kombucha, commenting on who is more ethical, and then write a long, overly wordy article denigrating hunters and promoting their gym and supplement business. What a complete self serving moron.

I couldn't agree with this more. The sense of entitlement, selfishness, and moral superiority this guy is farting out is just disgusting. This type of bloviating only harms the hunting community. I sincerely hope his customer base evaporates and he is pushed out of the industry so that he doesn't haven't a platform to spout this type of nonsense in the future. Nothing good can come from this type of behavior.

 

[jspradley]

I'm sure this guy will have no problem forking over the cash to make up the difference in loss of non-resident tag income as well as the millions of dollars nationwide governors tags bring in.

Sounds like your typical fudd jealous of the success of others who hides his real motives behind being "ethically pure"

 

[bsnedeker]

I'm sure this guy will have no problem forking over the cash to make up the difference in loss of non-resident tag income as well as the millions of dollars nationwide governors tags bring in.

Sounds like your typical fudd jealous of the success of others who hides his real motives behind being "ethically pure"

And that's only talking about tags! Does he have ANY clue how much money out of state hunters bring into state and local economies when we travel? I'm from eastern SD originally, my family paid a good chunk of their mortgage every year renting out our basement to out of state'ers coming up to chase pheasants.

 

[MtGomer]

If I were to find 8 flatlanders in ‘my’ spot, I’d figure I just need to hike further.
This guy starts a non profit where he’s the CEO and hopes to pay himself a salary from it.
Who’s the idiot here.



But really, this guy is a jackass

 

[coloyooper]

I'd like to slap the Kromer right off this clown's head.

Signed,

A Yooper in Colorado

 

[jspradley]

And that's only talking about tags! Does he have ANY clue how much money out of state hunters bring into state and local economies when we travel? I'm from eastern SD originally, my family paid a good chunk of their mortgage every year renting out our basement to out of state'ers coming up to chase pheasants.

Yup!

I really have to questions someone's dedication to conservation when they are advocating doing away with massive amounts of conservation revenue just to keep outsiders out of "his" spot...

 

[uwantasandwich]

“If you’re a guy in Michigan and want to go hunting in Wyoming you’re probably not going to like us, because we’re going to cut you off the team.”

what a douchebag.

he has been on the JOMH beyond the kill podcast before. i'd be interested to see how those guys over there react to this

 

[wapitibob]

The Commission tag money needs to stay in Wyoming and be used for Game or Conservation related projects. And considering some areas have reduced licenses because of these tags, trimming them down a bit might be a good idea too.

The 5% nr cap and no NR Sheep/Moose licenses isn't going anywhere.

 

[mitchellbk]

The weapon/distance argument IMO will not hold any weight with the fish and game agencies. If anything, I see less muzzle loader seasons - which makes sense.

What worries me the most is the bear bating argument. We as hunters know the ethics behind that and the use as a management tool. But look at Wyoming voter demographics and Teton County specifically. The reality is that even though they are the minority, they are the loudest socially and through media.

Once again, not trying to be negative - but we have great hunter perception with the help from MeatEater, BHA, etc - but all I see from them is the Public Lands cheerleading, which we need and they should continue to do so. But, who else with that big of a platform is out there trying to get spring bear season back in Colorado, bear baiting in Montana, Lion hunting back in California? Until listening to Kifarucast I had no idea you couldn't hunt spring bears in Colorado. I see some gaps out there for advocating... Maybe like others have said above, the cream will float to the top and all of this won't be an issue.

 

[sneaky]

Did he mention the idiotic wilderness rule in Wyoming? I bet not.

snip from this article: New nonprofit seeks to be ‘RAND Corp. of hunting’ | Environmental | jhnewsandguide.com

"Hunters should be prohibited from blasting a rifle at an elk that's any farther away than 300 yards to give the animal a fair shake, says a Jackson bowhunter who wants to make hunting more ethical. Same goes for bowhunting: Letting arrows fly more than 50 yards should be illegal.

Regulation demanding ethical behavior is needed to save big-game hunting, says Jackson Hole hunter Rob Shaul, who is starting a new nonprofit to advance his cause.

Shaul takes other unapologetic positions on issues he believes violate fair chase principles of hunting. People who drive all-terrain vehicles onto closed roads and trails during the fall seasons should lose their privilege to hunt. Bear baiting should be banned in Wyoming. Running down coyotes with snowmobiles 'is just stupid,' he says, and should be criminalized."



I cringed reading that article. Obviously driving on closed roads and running down coyotes is unacceptable. But for the rest, I don't know what to say other than agreeing with one of the comments at the bottom: "Another organization with good intentions that may only continue to fracture an already fractured hunting community."

Are there a lot of these hunter 'advocacy' groups out there? Moving forward, how do we as hunters address differences in opinions with these organizations? I hate to be negative but I only see this Non Profit as a threat to hunting and trapping.

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[sneaky]

I will say that for every hunter and every given weather and situational condition, there is a distance at which popping a shot off at game becomes unethical. If not for accuracy considerations, then for the hunting/sporting concept of fair chase.

Problem is that technology is allowing for shots at greater distances, and more and more guys are overestimating situational conditions and their ability. Guys are so invested in their hunt and trying to get a shot at anything that they justify any shot and ethics get marginalized.

Techology is overwhelming and surpassing animal defenses and social media and hunter egos are overwhelming fair chase.

Social media, TV shows, advertising dollars for gun makers and web sites, "smart" gun scopes and the like are clearly driving an increasing need to boast about distance and how capable one is at distance. Now that folks are popping off shots at elk and muley with "primitive" muzzle loaders at 400-600+ yards, it is black and white clear that muzzle loaders are no longer a handicap compared to decades of high power rifle statistics. At this point, I have to question why muzzle loaders even need their own season.

When folks are high power rifle shooting elk and muley at close to and sometimes far beyond 1000 yds, we should all ask ourselves what the distance is where shooting is no longer fair because animals can no longer use their hearing, sight and smell for defense?

Given the above, there WILL be a day when states lean in and dictate terms and definitions on ethics.

We hunters as a group are guilty of being so self righteous that we have had ZERO will to self regulate. No one seems willing to stand up and dictate ethics for those who lack them when compared to a general median of the overall population. No one seems willing to state what is or is not Fair Chase. With this as a backdrop, states and game agencies will ultimately step in guided by those with greater will and louder voices than ours.

Yes, a 300 yard limit for high power rifle is ridiculous, but 700 might not be. How much of a handicap is a muzzle loader anymore, and why do they still need their own season during archery season when folks are posting and boasting about popping shots at 400-600yds with them? It is undisputable that those distances have been traditional ethical high power rifle distances for decades.

Say what you will and howl in protest all you want, but at some point there will be ethical terms dictated and we can either get in front of them and make recommendations or have them dictated to us. If dictated to us, then maybe they'll be 300yds for rifle, 100yds for black powder and 50 for archery... because we, as a group were so self righteous that we were unwilling to offer any terms at all.


JL

Perhaps he can put you on his board of directors

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[sneaky]

I think the thing I appreciate the most out of this is this: this dbag runs a gym and training program for mountain hunting, and HE GOT BEAT to his hunting spot by FLATLANDER NR hunters. Lol. This shit writes itself I swear. He's so mad he's looking for sympathy from the non hunting Jackson elite.

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[jspradley]

I think the thing I appreciate the most out of this is this: this dbag runs a gym and training program for mountain hunting, and HE GOT BEAT to his hunting spot by FLATLANDER NR hunters. Lol. This shit writes itself I swear. He's so mad he's looking for sympathy from the non hunting Jackson elite.

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BWAHAHAHHAHAH dude that cracked me up... I didn't even put two and two together on that one.

 

[KurtR]

should email him and ask if the back country hunting program is the what he is following to get punked out by a bunch of guys from michigan

 

[jspradley]

should email him and ask if the back country hunting program is the what he is following to get punked out by a bunch of guys from michigan

They were clearly acting unethically... no one should be at a trailhead that early in the morning. We need laws for when NR hunters can start out...

 

[MuleyFever]

I will say that for every hunter and every given weather and situational condition, there is a distance at which popping a shot off at game becomes unethical. If not for accuracy considerations, then for the hunting/sporting concept of fair chase.

Problem is that technology is allowing for shots at greater distances, and more and more guys are overestimating situational conditions and their ability. Guys are so invested in their hunt and trying to get a shot at anything that they justify any shot and ethics get marginalized.

Techology is overwhelming and surpassing animal defenses and social media and hunter egos are overwhelming fair chase.

Social media, TV shows, advertising dollars for gun makers and web sites, "smart" gun scopes and the like are clearly driving an increasing need to boast about distance and how capable one is at distance. Now that folks are popping off shots at elk and muley with "primitive" muzzle loaders at 400-600+ yards, it is black and white clear that muzzle loaders are no longer a handicap compared to decades of high power rifle statistics. At this point, I have to question why muzzle loaders even need their own season.

When folks are high power rifle shooting elk and muley at close to and sometimes far beyond 1000 yds, we should all ask ourselves what the distance is where shooting is no longer fair because animals can no longer use their hearing, sight and smell for defense?

Given the above, there WILL be a day when states lean in and dictate terms and definitions on ethics.

We hunters as a group are guilty of being so self righteous that we have had ZERO will to self regulate. No one seems willing to stand up and dictate ethics for those who lack them when compared to a general median of the overall population. No one seems willing to state what is or is not Fair Chase. With this as a backdrop, states and game agencies will ultimately step in guided by those with greater will and louder voices than ours.

Yes, a 300 yard limit for high power rifle is ridiculous, but 700 might not be. How much of a handicap is a muzzle loader anymore, and why do they still need their own season during archery season when folks are posting and boasting about popping shots at 400-600yds with them? It is undisputable that those distances have been traditional ethical high power rifle distances for decades.

Say what you will and howl in protest all you want, but at some point there will be ethical terms dictated and we can either get in front of them and make recommendations or have them dictated to us. If dictated to us, then maybe they'll be 300yds for rifle, 100yds for black powder and 50 for archery... because we, as a group were so self righteous that we were unwilling to offer any terms at all.


JL

Mostly agree with your point. I will say though we need to get ML seasons back to primitive, not removed because some have extended their range.

 

[sneaky]

He also clearly states that the staff will eventually take a salary... do tell.

Also, doesn't fish and game represent the subsistence hunters he says are not being represented? This guy is a tool, but he's wearing Arcteryx so that makes him fit in in Jackson.

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[CorbLand]

Its mostly.

I have gained some popularity and there will be a couple people that agree with me and give some money. People will donate, I will take a salary and make some money off the back of others. Pretty smart business plan.

 

[sneaky]

Funny, he was on the Hunt the Backcountry podcast ep 62, and Steve has killed many critters over 50 yards with his bow, including a bull on film. Guess he can't do that anymore or he'll be sorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry.

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[Antarctica]

Makes me want to call this guy on the carpet insisting that he doesn't take a dime of the $$$ donated....and holding his "Non profit" books open 24-7.

We will see who is ethical or not....by how much salary this DB is siphoning off.

So what, "If the Clintons can do it...so can I" Sheesh.

You could say that about many of the 'Foundations' that serve to 'protect' our hunting interests. Like 'em or not, their 'altruistic' purpose is often dubious when you look under the hood. Non-profits are required to make some form of their financials public via the IRS 990 filing. Look 'em up and follow the money (google 990 lookup and go to foundation center). It will make you think twice about sending a 'donation'. My watermark for a nonprofit CEO's salary is about $250k. Check out St. Jude and you will want to puke (it requires looking through the many chapters to see how many folks rake in over $1M/year). Wild sheep CEO pulls in about $350k a year. RMEF sends well over $100k per year to some guy living in the CO boonies that does 'art framing'. Good work if you can get it.