Bear Safety in the Rockies

rgrmike

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Joined
Sep 2, 2016
Messages
213
Location
Colorado
Absolutely false.

The bear spray narrative is false dogma that was pushed by the environmentalists. They support the idea of spray because it does not injure the bears, unfortunately spray only works fairly reliably on curious bears, not bears that are actually attacking.

Sidearms are far more effective than bear spray (more than twice as effective), it's usually the shooter that isn't effective. Most people don't practice or rehearse how they will try to respond so when they are attacked they have no idea how to react. They have no plan and they simply panic.
I always thought the bear spray push was interesting. It was blatantly obvious that the statistics used to discredit the effectiveness of firearms were always skewed by those who value the lives of bears over the lives of humans. That's not to say that many responsible hunters and outdoorsman don't utilize spray as a means of deterrent. That is a choice that should fall on the individual. To say that spray is adequate protection is wishful thinking at best. Does it work sometimes...sure...BUT we all know what we'd rather have given the choice.

Bear populations should absolutely be controlled and managed and if they're not you're going to have problems...No amount of bear spray is going to change that. Spray is a tool and so is a firearm. I know which one I'll depend on.
 

rgrmike

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2016
Messages
213
Location
Colorado
Side note we SERIOUSLY need wilderness carry here. I hate humping a 12 gauge during bow season but our bear population is exploding and it is not a good place to be with meat on your back and nothing but a compound bow.
It's like they want you to get mauled lol....Are you in Canada?
 

rgrmike

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Joined
Sep 2, 2016
Messages
213
Location
Colorado
I'm assuming you're all for the hunting of Grizzlies in WY. I put in a for a tag last year. I'm all for the state managing it's wildlife. Its pretty hard for the detached lawmakers in DC to come up with sound hunting regulations and policy for western states.

I realize you have issue with all the non-resident hunters who travel to WY to hunt every year. You can blame that on WY. I live in CO so believe me we've got it worse than anyone. The fact is WY Guide Services have chosen to market to wealthy non-resident hunters and depend on their money to stay in business. Its the whole reason Guide Services exist. They want the wealthy out of towners to come in, spend their coin and then leave. I don't think it's a stretch to say that without non-resident hunting many people couldn't afford to live in WY anyway. Like it or not its a big industry in WY and it's only going to get worse. Come to CO....the woods look like a pumpkin patch.
 
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slatty

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
Messages
118
Location
British Columbia
I'm one of the lucky Canadians that can't carry a pistol in the woods. I bowhunt and don't want to carry a long arm so do the best I can without a gun. I always hang my food not because I think a bear will steal it from me while i'm in camp, but I think a bear might steal it from me while i'm away from my camp for 16 hours during the day. I'm more careful hunting in grizzly country and those are really the areas where I care about bear safety. I too just want to come home and I don't have the handgun option (I wish I did). I carry bear spray and i've never used it. I do hunt black bears and encounter them a lot but have never faced a grizzly.
 

K1United

Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
148
I'm assuming you're all for the hunting of Grizzlies in WY. I put in a for a tag last year. I'm all for the state managing it's wildlife. Its pretty hard for the detached lawmakers in DC to come up with sound hunting regulations and policy for western states.

I realize you have issue with all the non-resident hunters who travel to WY to hunt every year. You can blame that on WY. I live in CO so believe me we've got it worse than anyone. The fact is WY Guide Services have chosen to market to wealthy non-resident hunters and depend on their money to stay in business. Its the whole reason Guide Services exist. They want the wealthy out of towners to come in, spend their coin and then leave. I don't think it's a stretch to say that without non-resident hunting many people couldn't afford to live in WY anyway. Like it or not its a big industry in WY and it's only going to get worse. Come to CO....the woods look like a pumpkin patch.
You know what? I totally agree with you. All except for the part about Wyoming people not being able to afford to live without outsider dollars. It's actually the outsider dollars that are driving up the cost and forcing hard working Wyoming people out. Just ask people from Montana what happened to them in the 80's and 90's. The wealthy have found their new playground and they are dead set on owning every beautiful inch of it, whether they live there full time or not. It's also not big industry, it's the 1% deciding for the rest of us. I can honestly say I make a decent living, well over the designated Wyoming median income, and I have a hard time making ends meet. So when do we say as a state, enough is enough? Side note, did you know that Colorado will not hire out of state military veterans for VA or state government jobs? They will only hire you if youre a Colorado resident!! Insane, right? Sounds like your state is slowly trying to do it, why not ours. Obviously not for the veterans, like myself, but for the wealthy land grabbers like Ted Turner and the sort.
 
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Northwinds308

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2019
Messages
101
It's like they want you to get mauled lol....Are you in Canada?

I am and they basically do. According to F&W there's 500 grizzlies in all of Alberta.


Over 3500 officially in BC (reality it's higher) but 500 in the WHOLE province of Alberta. I'm in a Facebook group and see pictures of 3-400 bears posted a year. 500 bears my @$$. I've got a bridge over the Bow River for sale.
 

Charlottes

Junior Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2019
Messages
17
Absolutely false.

The bear spray narrative is false dogma that was pushed by the environmentalists. They support the idea of spray because it does not injure the bears, unfortunately spray only works fairly reliably on curious bears, not bears that are actually attacking.

Sidearms are far more effective than bear spray (more than twice as effective), it's usually the shooter that isn't effective. Most people don't practice or rehearse how they will try to respond so when they are attacked they have no idea how to react. They have no plan and they simply panic.
Prove it.

Bear spray narrative is supported by a wide range of people and professionals who spend their lives in the bush:

Heres a study on black bear attacks, moral of the story? know bear behaviour. https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jwmg.72

Heres a study on bear spray efficacy, moral of the story? the stuff works very well, even if you barely understand how to use it.

Heres a study on firearm efficacy, moral of the story? less effective than spray, why? Efficacy depends on type of bear behaviour and shooters proficiency

Heres an article by a guy who summarizes all of the above, how these are the most cited studies, their biases and how you can spin the debate either way:
https://www.gohunt.com/read/skills/hunting-in-grizzly-bear-country-sidearm-vs-bear-spray#gs.34vllr - he gets it, boils it down to personal preference, carry a sidearm and all the accoutrements of training with it, shooting it regularly, cleaning it regularly, wearing it whenever using it in the bush and dealing with (often realll limiting) restricted carry permits, or buy a can of pepper sauce and call it a done day.

Solo bowhunting is in my opinion the only time you're really justified in packing a sidearm if thats your preference, and in that case, as someone said above just buy a bear tag and you'll guarantee you won't see any. But hey, I'm just pushing an environmentalist narrative here cause y'know, I work for the Clintons and I'm trying to take your guns and jobs away.
 

Northwinds308

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2019
Messages
101
Prove it.

Bear spray narrative is supported by a wide range of people and professionals who spend their lives in the bush:

Heres a study on black bear attacks, moral of the story? know bear behaviour.

Most of us that carry ARE solo bowhunting or carrying strictly for the pack out. I'd also argue that while black bear attacks are statistically more common, they also share a MUCH wider range with humans and problem bears dumpster diving brings them into contact with humans and removes their fear of man.

Grizzlies are 100% a different animal. A black bear doesn't realize how much bigger it is than you but a grizzly sure as shit does. You are not the top of the food chain to them and predatory attacks are much more common than biologist or the media want you to believe.
 

Northwinds308

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Aug 20, 2019
Messages
101
A fly fisherman killed a black bear with a fillet knife a couple years back. If I had to fight for my life I think my odds against a black bear of surviving are decent. Grizzly? Slim to none.
 

Northwinds308

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2019
Messages
101
Also you seem to make cleaning it sound like a big deal, it's not more of an issue than any other piece of kit you take out there, less than many. I can tell you've never owned a Glock but they're the pistol equivalent to a long piston platform like the AK series. You pull the trigger and they go bang.
 

Team4LongGun

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2019
Messages
155
bring bear spray, not a sidearm, sidearms have been proven less effective, you're more likely to wing the bear with a sidearm than stop it if its charging you. Whereas with bear spray you're more likely to stop the bear and give yourself time to get your rifle out or get out. Make sure to keep the spray on your hip so you can whip it out real fast. Sidearms are too much weight and hassle as well, the only cool thing about a sidearm is that they look cool, if you think they look cool, if you're practical you'll see them for what they are.
THE most ignorant statement on this forum. Not even worth educating. Lost cause.
 

Charlottes

Junior Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2019
Messages
17
Also you seem to make cleaning it sound like a big deal, it's not more of an issue than any other piece of kit you take out there, less than many. I can tell you've never owned a Glock but they're the pistol equivalent to a long piston platform like the AK series. You pull the trigger and they go bang.
Cleaning bear spray is easier though, as in you never need to clean it.

Listen buddy, you do you, carry a sidearm, fill your boots, the likelihood of a bear killing either of us in the woods is not that high, I’m not going to stress about it too much either way, and I’m sure as shit not going to pack a hand cannon when I don’t need to for what I see are practical reasons. I’d rather save that weight for a nice napping pillow or some Archie comics or tissues to cry into when I don’t see any game that day.
 

black dawg

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2017
Messages
260
Location
sw mt
Bear spray has an effectiveness half life, its going to keep bears away, very very well at first, and then over time become an attractant, as corroborated by your pepper sauce story.
Have never heard this before. Source to back this up??
 

Charlottes

Junior Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2019
Messages
17
Think about bear behaviour, any foreign smell is interesting to them, jeez I’ll bet even maartens, badgers or any other meat eater/scavenger with a nose around will check it out at some point
 
Joined
May 3, 2019
Messages
76
I have backpacked three seasons without a side arm. This year I'm packing a 9mm with hard cast bullets. Black bears do get aggressive and will enter tents at night. It's rare, but I don't want to be the defenseless burrito. I have two kids and want to make sure I return home.
9mm ???? Can’t hardly kill a human with one ?

You’re much braver than me. .45 or 10mm for me. Even my .40 I have doubts. Bear bone is wayyyyy heavy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Gunnersdad49

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2017
Messages
818
Location
Colorado
I’m interested in the real world experiences of some posters here vs their “book learning”.

Bear spray has a place, but just like a cop’s less lethal options, it isn’t a final answer many times.

Back to the initial question, I like to hang my food and keep it away from where I sleep. It’s mandatory in grizzly country and good practice in black bear areas. It also keeps mice and skunks and stuff out of your tent and out of your food.

A charging bear is tough to stop with a pistol, and tougher to stop with spray. A curious bear, as mentioned above, can be discouraged with spray, or a shot into the dirt in front of it.

Here in Colorado, a 9mm isn’t a terrible choice if that’s all you have, and it is about perfect for mountain lions or 2 legged dirt balls. I have walked up on bears while bow hunting solo. I have had them wake me up from a nap while solo bow napping. I don’t carry a pistol when rifle hunting, but do when packing animals out.

Pic is one I took fishing a couple of years ago. Just to add some flavor to the discussion.
 

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