Biden announces proposed gun control measures

[BjornF16]

But thinking there is a nut-job extremist behind every tree is the mark of a conspiracy theorist.

The "gun control groups" are plotting just like the pro-gun lobby is plotting.

I haven't said there is an extremist behind every tree...

To deny gun control advocates want to be rid of 2A is just being in denial.

What, exactly, is the NRA plotting? To keep our 2A rights as we know them today?

 

[BjornF16]

Most "gun rights" are safe with the current conservative-packed Supreme Court upholding the Heller decision. The government does have the right to make some changes at the periphery, (and probably should) but the fundamental right to own arms for home defense will likely not be infringed. Much ado about nothing until there is a new majority in the Supreme Court.

The problem with this line of thinking is this:

1. Dems pass gun control measures
2. Folks get arrested/prosecuted for violating said measures
3. Arrest/prosecution wrecks lives
4. Years go by before SCOTUS hears case
5. What is the make-up of SCOTUS in 2-6 years?

 

[Newtosavage]

I haven't said there is an extremist behind every tree...

To deny gun control advocates want to be rid of 2A is just being in denial.

What, exactly, is the NRA plotting? To keep our 2A rights as we know them today?

Never said you did. But then I don't take you for an extremist nut either.

The NRA pushes out misinformation every day. I don't think LaPierre would know an unbiased truth if it hit him in the face and he forfeited the moral high ground a couple decades ago when he called federal officers "jackbooted thugs." In my mind, he's an extremist just like the idiot liberals on the far left who are scared to death of any gun they see.

I'm exhausted by extremism in this country. I know it's what drives the information wars, but damn I'm tired of it and wish we could just get back to some rational conversations for a change.

 

[BjornF16]

Never said you did. But then I don't take you for an extremist nut either.

The NRA pushes out misinformation every day. I don't think LaPierre would know an unbiased truth if it hit him in the face and he forfeited the moral high ground a couple decades ago when he called federal officers "jackbooted thugs." In my mind, he's an extremist just like the idiot liberals on the far left who are scared to death of any gun they see.

I'm exhausted by extremism in this country. I know it's what drives the information wars, but damn I'm tired of it and wish we could just get back to some rational conversations for a change.

Please, list some of the "misinformation" from NRA that come out everyday...

I'm curious as to what you believe is misinformation and the opportunity to address or confirm it.

 

[BjornF16]

Here is a story about a mainstream gun control group from a lame stream, errr, I mean "mainstream" media outlet:

Bloomberg’s gun control group calls for a raft of executive actions from Biden. (Published 2020)

www.nytimes.com

Here is the NRA summary of the NYT article:

NRA-ILA | Bloomberg’s Everytown Encourages Biden to Pursue Unlawful Executive Gun Controls

Michael Bloomberg’s anti-gun organization Everytown for Gun Safety is pushing Joe Biden to enact a raft of gun control by executive fiat. As much as Everytown and their would-be autocrat benefactor might wish, the U.S. Presidency is not a dictatorship. The executive actions Everytown...

www.nraila.org

@Newtosavage - Is the NRA story "misinformation"?

 

[BjornF16]

Here is an NRA news story regarding another potential Executive Order from Biden:

NRA-ILA | Bloomberg’s Everytown Encourages Biden to Pursue Unlawful Executive Gun Controls

Michael Bloomberg’s anti-gun organization Everytown for Gun Safety is pushing Joe Biden to enact a raft of gun control by executive fiat. As much as Everytown and their would-be autocrat benefactor might wish, the U.S. Presidency is not a dictatorship. The executive actions Everytown...

www.nraila.org

Here are articles about suing gun manufacturers:

Democrats Introduce Bill Allowing Shooting Victims To Sue Gun Industry

The Equal Access to Justice for Victims of Gun Violence Act aims to repeal a 2005 federal law known as the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, but it faces long odds of becoming law.

www.npr.org

Biden to gun manufacturers: ‘I’m coming for you. Period’ - Washington Examiner

2020 Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden promised gun manufacturers across the United States that he’s “coming for them.”“A guy has 12 assault weapons with bump stocks, which means you can fire it faster. You can pull the trigger faster,” Biden said to a crowd during a CNN town hall...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

(watch video)

@Newtosavage - Is the NRA news story "misinformation"?

 

[BjornF16]

I don't think LaPierre would know an unbiased truth if it hit him in the face and he forfeited the moral high ground a couple decades ago when he called federal officers "jackbooted thugs." In my mind, he's an extremist just like the idiot liberals on the far left who are scared to death of any gun they see.

I'm exhausted by extremism in this country. I know it's what drives the information wars, but damn I'm tired of it and wish we could just get back to some rational conversations for a change.

I don't like LaPierre either...for different reasons. I think he has abused NRA members donations/fees for personal gain above and beyond "norms". Just my opinion.

As far as "jackbooted thugs"...I know a lot of people who called the ATF the same:

Among other things, LaPierre said in the April 13, 1995 letter to NRA members:

“…the semiauto-auto ban gives jack-booted government thugs more power to take away our constitutional rights, break in our doors, seize our guns, destroy our property, and even injure or kill us.”

Ruby Ridge - Idaho, Incident & Standoff | HISTORY

Ruby Ridge was the location of a violent 11-day standoff between an Idaho family and federal agents in 1992 that sparked the modern American militia movement.

www.history.com

Ruby Ridge Aftermath ​

Despite being charged with murder, conspiracy and other crimes, Weaver was only convicted of failing to appear for trial on his original weapons charge. Harris was cleared of all charges.

‘We are very sorry’: The bloody standoff at Ruby Ridge in 1992 that left 3 people dead

On Aug. 31, 1992, white separatist Randy Weaver surrendered to the FBI, ending an 11-day standoff on Ruby Ridge in Idaho that left three people dead.

www.pennlive.com

Weaver and Harris were acquitted of Degan’s murder in 1993. In 1994 they filed federal civil rights cases against the FBI and U.S. marshals. The government settled the case for $3.1 million.

In 1997, Lon Horiuchi was charged with involuntary manslaughter but the charge was dismissed in 1998. The ruling was appealed in 2001 but a new prosecutor declined to pursue the charge.

Waco Siege

The Waco Siege began in early 1993, when a government raid on a compound near Waco, Texas, led to a 51-day standoff between federal agents and members of a

www.history.com

 

[Hoodie]

I don't know how many of you have been paying attention to recent political news, but it appears there are several democrats unwilling to vote to nuke the filibuster. Good old Dianne Feinstein probably being one of them (she expressed her unwillingness to end the filibuster back in Sept.). Joe Manchin of WV and Kyrsten Sinema of AZ have made statements this week to the same effect. This makes sense for Manchin and Sinema, given that they represent states with large numbers of conservative voters. As per the usual, politicians do what it takes to stay in office. Which isn't always a bad thing.

Biden has backed off from immediately passing a relief bill for the sake of passing one with more bipartisan support. This is a fairly noteworthy piece of evidence that he will work across the aisle, given that a fairly large majority of Americans support $2k stimulus checks, and several Republican senators have already expressed their willingness to vote for them immediately. If he's planning to go scorched Earth, this is a perplexing way to show it.

Schumer has been fleshing out a power sharing plan with McConnell. Whether this is just a meaningless gesture or not, I couldn't say.

But if these actions are indicative of how things will be going forward, I'm not sure I can reasonably expect an immediate tidal wave of legislation being passed from this administration. I think there is strong evidence that things will be similar to the last time Democrats held the House and Senate.

That doesn't mean voters shouldn't stay vigilant. Just that there's more evidence that the sky isn't falling quite yet.

I've seen several on here criticize John McCain and Mitt Romney for what I would consider efforts to work across the aisle. For better or worse, Joe Biden, in my unqualified view, is essentially the Democrat equivalent. I think his record speaks to that.

These are just my interpretations of what I'm seeing, so I'm sure some won't agree. I'm not a PolySci major, so I could be reading this whole thing wrong and the Communist apocalypse may well still be imminent.

 

[BjornF16]

But if these actions are indicative of how things will be going forward, I'm not sure I can reasonably expect an immediate tidal wave of legislation being passed from this administration. I think there is strong evidence that things will be similar to the last time Democrats held the House and Senate.

I've seen several on here criticize John McCain and Mitt Romney for what I would consider efforts to work across the aisle. For better or worse, Joe Biden, in my unqualified view, is essentially the Democrat equivalent. I think his record speaks to that.

I wouldn't hold my breath...

Again, Obama didn't fail on gun control for lack of trying.

McCain...I honor his military service; I despise his political career. I hope he is R.I.P.

Romney...I hope the folks in UT wake up to what a RINO he is. The ones I talk to don't like him either. Modern day carpet bagger...

 

[zion zig zag]

RINO

What a stupid ******* term and exactly the kind of partisan shit that makes me hate current politics. Party lines over common sense, party lines over everything, right? That makes the country better. It actually warms my cockles when I see politicians cross to the other side and vote their conscience. We need more of that, not less.

 

[zion zig zag]

Romney votes with McConnell 93% of the time. Damn RINO!!!

Compare: Mitt Romney (R-Utah) and Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.)

Compare the voting records of any two members of Congress.

projects.propublica.org

 

[Huntinaz]

@Hoodie I agree if the filibuster remains intact that’s a good sign. Politicians say one thing but care about getting re-elected and the second amendment in sone form is important to a large portion of the population on both sides. Depending on any legislation proposed it could easily get voted down if it’s drastic. I think there’s good reason to think nothing will happen

But I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all to be watching and voting and speaking up and staying vigilant, about things you care about. And this panic gonna last awhile. Especially if something does get proposed by the house

It’s also reasonable to assume that anything that does happen to get past the senate will get signed by the current president

A number of things said by Biden and Harris during this campaign gives 2A supporters every right to be fired up about it though and it’s hard for me to understand how that what is written in the original post from Biden’s page can be taken as anything but an assault of the 2A. It’s hard for me to say oh this will blow over, the only reasonable thing to expect of if the current political landscape is “nothing”

 

[Hoodie]

I wouldn't hold my breath...

Again, Obama didn't fail on gun control for lack of trying.

McCain...I honor his military service; I despise his political career. I hope he is R.I.P.

Romney...I hope the folks in UT wake up to what a RINO he is. The ones I talk to don't like him either. Modern day carpet bagger...

I would agree with your assessment on both McCain and Romney, but I still think Joe Biden's record supports the claim that he is very much their counterpart.

And that has relevance to the discussion surrounding what we can expect from him.

Given your assessment, had McCain or Romney become president you likely would have had low expectations of them as a Republican voter, right?

I don't think Democrats have any reason to feel differently with Biden at the helm.

 

[TexasCub]

Biden was the most moderate Dem in the entire primary, which is why he got the nomination and why he won the election. Because lots of folks were looking for some moderation after the last 4 years of chaos.

”Moderation”......dude you are so out of touch with reality that it’s insane. First of all that dementia laden old man (Joe) is not pulling any strings. People like you thinking that Dementia Joe is a moderate just handed the reigns to the most radical wing of leftist government in our history. They have every desire imaginable to transform this country from what it’s been to something most of us won’t even recognize. Gun control is a gnat on a bulls ass compared to what they plan to do. And yes they have a plan!

 

[BjornF16]

Given your assessment, had McCain or Romney become president you likely would have had low expectations of them as a Republican voter, right?

I held my nose and voted for them only because there was no real acceptable alternative.

 

[BjornF16]

What a stupid ******* term and exactly the kind of partisan shit that makes me hate current politics. Party lines over common sense, party lines over everything, right? That makes the country better. It actually warms my cockles when I see politicians cross to the other side and vote their conscience. We need more of that, not less.

Ja, because the dems are so reasonable...

 

[BjornF16]

Romney votes with McConnell 93% of the time. Damn RINO!!!

Compare: Mitt Romney (R-Utah) and Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.)

Compare the voting records of any two members of Congress.

projects.propublica.org

Ja...can't wait to get rid of McConnell either.

There is one overarching thing that really irritates me about Republican politicians, and that is when they promise the sky for conservative/Republican values to get elected then do an about face and renege on those promises.

McCain, Romney, Cornyn, McConnell, ... the list goes on. Thus the term, "RINO".

It has nothing to do with "partisanship"...it has everything to do with broken promises to their constituents.

RINO - Conservapedia

conservapedia.com

 

[Hoodie]

”Moderation”......dude you are so out of touch with reality that it’s insane. First of all that dementia laden old man (Joe) is not pulling any strings. People like you thinking that Dementia Joe is a moderate just handed the reigns to the most radical wing of leftist government in our history. They have every desire imaginable to transform this country from what it’s been to something most of us won’t even recognize. Gun control is a gnat on a bulls ass compared to what they plan to do. And yes they have a plan!

I think if you've been paying attention to how things are actually progressing (i.e. the filibuster discussion, Covid relief, senate power sharing, etc.) and you've come away with the conclusion that left wing radicals are going to go scorched Earth on everything while their Republican counter parts sit helpless on the sidelines you either:

a) Haven't actually been paying attention to current events.

or

b) Just like the idea that the sky is falling.

Reality is what's happening in reality. The only way to defend your position with real life evidence is to imply that the democrats are currently just lulling everyone into a false sense of security. If that's the case they better hurry up and get to the agenda, because at this rate they're going to lose their asses come midterms and this whole thing is going to be a non-issue.

I'm pretty confident they aren't going to keep those Georgia Senate seats if they don't pass a relief bill most ricky-tick.

If there's anything you can mostly count on Democrats for, it's to be deaf to the concerns of their constituents and lose elections.

 

[Newtosavage]

”Moderation”......dude you are so out of touch with reality that it’s insane. First of all that dementia laden old man (Joe) is not pulling any strings. People like you thinking that Dementia Joe is a moderate just handed the reigns to the most radical wing of leftist government in our history. They have every desire imaginable to transform this country from what it’s been to something most of us won’t even recognize. Gun control is a gnat on a bulls ass compared to what they plan to do. And yes they have a plan!

you know, I get tired of being attacked for just expressing my opinion here. So long fellas. Ya'll can have at it. Apparently there is no room for moderates here.

 

[KS2MOHUNTER]

This has been an interesting thread to catch up on........
Has taken a lot of turns along the way for sure.
I will say this and I truly believe it, and try to communicate it to people when political conversations are going on.
Take the extreme 10% on the left and the extreme 10% on the right.......the remaining 80% of American could come to agreement on damn near every single topic there is. It's those on the extremes we hear about the most because they scream the loudest..........all the while a huge majority of America is left standing there thinking about "what the hell is going on around me".
There was a time where both sides could actually negotiate a matter without getting blasted in the news or social media........and it was also acceptable to do so.......the idea of "we had to give a little, but we got most of what we wanted"........
Can't do that nowadays.........it's all or nothing for every issue there is.