Black Bear/Cougar 30-06 Round

[Dan11011]

Hey thanks for this! Really great photos!! Looks like the e tips would easily open up on the thinnest skinned game, like a coyote. Do you notice any benefits other than a bunch of lead fragmenting into your animal? Better terminal performance or destruction? I just see a lot of benefits for both me and the environment with using non lead bullets. I feel at 100-250 yards a 168g TTSX leaving at 2800fps would do excellent on black bear, deer, cougar, elk and coyote. I've heard more positive stories than negative ones with the new TTSX.

My only fear is that I take a broadside shot on a black bear or cougar at 50 yards and have the TTSX zip through while causing little damage, and the animal runs off. But I feel that bullet failure happens with all bullets and that the TTSX has had lots of testing done. Partitions are good, just not for my gun.

 

[Dan11011]

I know I'm putting too much thought into this and that all these combinations should work. If my guide had said to use the TTSX I'd be convinced. But his family has been hunting for bears for over half a century and I'm sure he knows what he's talking about, but I also assume he isn't caught up on the latest bullets and is thinking of the original Barnes X which had problems.

This is my first guided hunt and with all the expenses put in, I want to do my part and with confidence.

 

[Jason Snyder]

I've shot a lot of Barnes TSX bullets, at various ranges and velocities, and never had a problem with them. I do disagree with the assertion that they will pencil at high velocities. Typically they expand very well at higher velocities, and MAY pencil at lower velocities/extreme ranges. I load 150 grainers in my wife's '06 and it's worked fine on elk.

 

[Bar]

Since you're paying your guide to guide you. Why don't you listen to him?

Partition.

 

[Dan11011]

Alright for this hunt because of what my guide said, I will use a Partition. 165g or 180g? Also which factory loads are available? I've only seen Federal Premium and Sellier & Bellot. Would it be a good idea to get a friend to hand load some for best accuracy?

 

[6mm Remington]

Dan if it's a good friend and you completely trust him he could load some up. Nosler makes some fine ammunition. Go to shootersproshop and look for 165 or 180 gr. Partitions in Over-runs and blemished loaded ammo.

This is not blemished and you get them for a lot cheaper.

http://www.shootersproshop.com/nosl...ield-150-grain-partition-ammunition-20ct.html

 

[Dan11011]

Hey thanks for the tip! I'd never heard of this site. Too bad those are 150g.

And too bad these are out of stock.
http://www.shootersproshop.com/nosl...gfield-180-grain-partition-over-run-20ct.html

Heres the Sellier & Bellot which I haven't tried:
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/prod...er-partition-hunting-ammo-20-rounds?a=1581344

And the Federal which I have (1.5-2 inch groups at 100 yards. Crunchy feeding):
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/17...ingfield-180-grain-nosler-partition-box-of-20

 

[rileybassman]

I shoot 168 TTSX... used 180s last year and didn't have any expanding issues on whitetail, so I assume with more velocity, I will have even better expansion. All of the bullets listed will kill with good shot placement.

 

[Dan11011]

Thanks for this!

 

[SDHNTR]

As one in CA that has to shoot copper, I have extensive experinece with Barnes, both TSX, and TTSX. The TSX are absolutely terrible on thin skinned game with a rib hit through the lungs. Pencil holes in and out. The TTSX models are a little better and expand a little more but still not great. With either, you gotta hit heavy bone with them to make em work well in thin skinned/boned game. Got to break them down with the shot. Shoot them IN the shoulder, not behind it. I'm also going to disagree with Stid here in that, I think the Barnes coppers work better at close range with lots of speed. You want more speed to make them open up. That's why guys often size down a bullet weight or two with copper. You obviously have more velocity at close range and will get more expansion. In my experience, it's the 2-300+ yard shots where copper leave a lot to be desired. Seen too many critters hit at that range (.270 -.300wm and everything in between) in the lungs that have run like hell with little holes in and out.

The Accubond on the other hand is my bullet of choice when copper is not required. IMO, in typical 30-06 type speeds, it's a great compromise between retention and expansion. 165 gr is perfect in 30-06. I'd use that round with 100% confidence for anything in the lower 48, without hesitation. If they shoot well in your rifle, no need to give it another moment's thought. They will perform.

 

[Dan11011]

Thanks for the input. I am a little scared of using the copper on game despite rave reviews incase a long shot is needed. I would like to stick with one bullet for a while that will work with coyote, elk, whitetail deer, black bear, and if I'm lucky cougar.

I want to put the animals down first and foremost but also want accuracy and confidence whether its up close or at a far distance. I don't bait, hound hunt, or take shots on game much past 300 yards.

I feel like a 165 grain bullet would work with both small and large game while being accurate, so I don't have to switch around to a different weight. I feel the 165 could limit pelt damage on coyote while giving enough heft for elk and black bear. Partitions shoot poorly in my gun and I feel like I'm shooting too precise of a weapon to be shooting classic exposed lead Partitions. I know they work well, but thats just me.

Both a factory 168 TTSX and 165 Accubond seem like they would work for all the hunting I want. I want to go lead free as a lover of nature and having a desire to limit my impact on the outdoors but the Accubond seems to have a better following with my given caliber (30-06). If I had a magnum maybe the TTSX would be a better choice.

 

[Bar]

Are you new to hunting?

 

[Dan11011]

Yes, this will be my second season hunting and other than working out and practicing at the range I've been obsessing over bullets and gadgets for the upcoming season. Sorry if my questions are obscure.

 

[rileybassman]

Don't overthink the bullet. 150,165, 180, ttsx, accubond, partition, all are premium bullets, any will kill either. Pick most accurate and carry on

 

[Dan11011]

Thank you rileybassman. You're right! Just want to do my part and be as ethical as possible.

 

[hodgeman]

I've taken a pile of game with the 180AB, and if forced to pick one bullet for everything- that's it.

I don't like the TSX- some people love them but I've seen several that didn't expand at all. They do work but I believe it's over a fairly narrow range of impact speeds. Too fast is bad and too slow is worse. I'd take the published 1800fps threshold with a grain of salt, we pulled one out of a moose's hind quarter that could have been wiped off and loaded again and it hit at faster speed than that and penetrated enough animal that it should have done whatever it was going to do... I'd only use one if I was in CA and couldn't use lead.

The reason Partitions are so highly suggested by guides and a lot of other folks is that they do expand reliably over a wide range of impact speeds and the "partitioned" rear will generally punch clear through. If I can't get an AB, I'd take a Partition. Not a thing wrong with them in the '06.

I also wouldn't fret about a 3" group. We all like sub MOA guns but the bottom line is- mountains of animals have been killed with guns that don't shoot even that good. I'd worry more about wearing good boots and having a better rain coat.

 

[Bar]

Thank you rileybassman. You're right! Just want to do my part and be as ethical as possible.

Ethical is where you place the bullet. All the bullets in this thread will do just fine. Pick one, and then forget it. Don't let it occupy your mind during the hunt. Your thoughts should be on having fun, and placing the bullet where it belongs. All the rest will fall in place.

 

[Dan11011]

Hey thanks everybody. I appreciate the information and reassurance. If this thread is still up, I hope to post a photo of me with my Bear in September. Thanks to all.