Black Bear/Cougar 30-06 Round

[Dan11011]

Hi, this is my first post as I joined today.

I am looking for a factory round for my Tikka T3 Superlight in 30-06 for a fall spot and stalk bear hunt in September. There is also a slight chance that I will have a shot at a cougar. Shots will range from 100-250yds. My guide recommends a Federal 180g Nosler Partition. I have taken these to the range and got 3 inch groups at 100yds. Not pleased. I know it could work well but I want to be confident with my shot.

I tried Barnes 180g TTSX Vor-Tx ammo and could put 5 shots in an inch and a half with some holes touching. My guide thinks this round could pencil through a bear and fail to expand like some of the horror stories people have told with barnes bullets. However, both the Barnes website/customer service and many different peoples experience is that they absolutely work as advertised even on thin skin game like a cougar. I want to use them due to their accuracy and smooth feeding but am hesitant because of my guide.

I know people step down in bullet weight with these bullets since they retain all their weight and to increase velocity so should I use a 150g (2900fps), 168g (2800fps) or 180g (2700fps)? They all should open up fine in those ranges as I believe 1800fps is the minimum for expansion. I have only used the 180g at the range with great results but think that 168g work be perfect.

I have tried lots of different rounds but have narrowed it down to these as I feel they will work for both a cougar and black bear and hopefully deer and elk this fall as well. Also, how would these work for coyote as far as pelt damage?

Any thoughts, past experiences, or ideas are appreciated.
Thank you very much and have a great day.

-Daniel

 

[6mm Remington]

Dan I've shot a 30-06 for years and the only bullet is load weighs 165 grs. That seems to be a great weight in the 30-06 but then there also is nothing wrong with the 180 gr. bullets in her either. I handload and always have but there are some great factory loads out there.

You might try some 165 gr. Partitions or Accubonds in your 30-06. I use both and they both work extremely well. I've taken gophers, coyotes, antelope, deer, elk, and black bear with them and they work exceptionally well. Find a good solid bullet ( I mean quality bullet.) and the one that shoots the best in your rifle and I think you will be fine.

 

[Dan11011]

Thanks for the input. It's funny that you say 165g as the first bullets I put through this gun (after some breaking in rounds) were 165g Accubonds and I had some great groups. I just have never thought of trying them again for these applications.

 

[6mm Remington]

Here is a bullet out of my 30-06 into water jugs at 400 yards and another Accubond out of my son's 300 WSM into water jugs at 500 yards. Both penetrated great, expanded very well, and held their weight. The 30-06 one took a real hit as it hit the edge of the particle board I had the water jugs sitting on just before entering them. Love those Accubonds.



30-06 165 gr. Accubond into water jugs at 25 yards!! Penetrated great and hows that for a great mushroom at those high impact speeds!



Almost made it into jug 6 at 25 yards!

 

[orelkaddict]

I've shot multiple black bears with my 30-06 and 165 grain Accubonds. I always aim high shoulder and they've all been "1 and done" kills, ranging from 40 yards out to 275. I reload so I worked up a load with these bullets so I'm not sure how the factory stuff compares?

 

[RCA Dog]

I reload, so some of this might not matter. I started with the Hornady SST in 150, 165, and 180 grain. The 180 shot the best, so I went with that. They always did the job on bear, deer and moose, but had some pretty significant meat damage, although they left a mighty fine blood trail. I managed to recover one that had gone into a deer, hit an onside rib, then ended up against the off side shoulder blade, breaking the shoulder. It weighed 90-something grains. Where did all that lead\copper go ? I don't know or really care, it did the job.
After that, I started with the Barnes TTSX, again in 150, 165, 168, and 180. They all shot well, so I picked the 168. I have shot deer only so far with this loading, and not recovered a bullet yet. There is significantly less meat damage, but less blood trail, and less 'bang flop' action. I actually took 3 shots at a deer that was no more than 50 yards away, hit the boiler room with the first two, and spine with the third. Upon opening him up, it was obvious that either of the first two shots should have killed him, but obviously nobody told him that. After the first shot, he went back to eating !
On the less blood trail thing, a friend of mine used my rifle (long story) to shoot a whitetail from about 100 yards. He hit him a bit high, but still in the boiler room. No blood trail whatsoever, even though it was a pass through. It took us a while to find that deer, and it wasn't much fun, thinking, "How did he miss ? He never misses". Then we found him, took care of him and found that although the heart and lungs were obliterated, there was no blood because it didn't have time to fill up the chest cavity before the deer died. It went about 100 yards from where it was shot.
I am going to try Partitions next, to see if they turn my crank. All this is with a Sako Finnlight 30-06.

 

[Dan11011]

If I can get good groups with the 165g accubonds it seems like they will work for the bear and open up even on cougar, I am just quite interested with the mono metal barnes ttsx bullets and there lack of lead.

 

[huntin'monkey]

Another vote for Accubonds. Try them in 180g too. I used to shoot both weights in my .308 but switched to 180 exclusively with great results on deer and an elk. All bang, flop heart shots, no bullets recovered. They'll push out a bit faster from your '06, which is not a bad thing.

 

[Stid2677]

Okay advice from someone that has killed many bears with both Barnes TSXs and Nosler Accubonds, worth what you paid for it.

I'm assuming the Cougar will be shot close, after being treed, that means a VERY CLOSE shot,,,, This is NOT the best use of a Barnes TSX or many bullets for that matter. These bullets are made to preform at lower impact speeds and not for 20 yards hits. The TSXs have penciled or failed to deploy and resulted in very hard to recover game.

The Accubonds 'which I love BTW" like to explode when they hit game up close. I have numerous photos to show this, my go to 30-06 load is a 180 grain Accubond, and I have killed many animals with it, but I would not chose this load for bear baiting of shooting cats from trees.

You pay a guide for a reason,,,, I would listen and buy a box of partitions or some Swift Aframes in 180 grain and go forth and kill stuff.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/69...springfield-180-grain-swift-a-frame-box-of-20

 

[Bar]

You can never go wrong with a Partition. It will expand at all speeds. Bears are not hard to kill. What you use for a muley buck will kill a bear.

 

[Dan11011]

We aren't baiting the bear. And if I got a shot at a cat it would be by coincidence (not treed) likely at 200 or so yards. They have a pretty good population of cougars where I'm hunting for 5 days. They saw two cougars last year while bear hunting. One client didn't have a tag and the other missed the shot. I have yet to shoot Aframes but here good things. I guess I'll give the 180g Partitions another shot at the range. Or I'll try to get a buddy to reload them for me. It's simply the accuracy that I am hesitant about. However the versatility of the partition at mild distance on bear or cougar to possibly up close makes it great for my situation.

 

[PNWGATOR]

Based on the field experience of several guys on this forum I have switched to accubond. Haven't shot anything with one yet, but I am 100% confident they'll perform.

 

[6mm Remington]

Here are tests of the Partition, Accubond, and E-tip all from Nosler into water jugs at 25 yards with my 6mm Remington. Just to give you an idea how they all work. Hope this helps.
David

 

[6mm Remington]

Here they are at 400 yards from water jugs.



They all opened up very nicely! My son took a big old cow elk at 350 yards with one shot with the 90 gr. E-tip in his 6mm Remington.



Here is my boy with his 300 WSM and elk shot with a 180 gr. Accubond at 100 yards.



Recovered bullet.

 

[6mm Remington]

Here is my son's first elk with his 6mm Remington and 90 gr. E-tip, one shot at 350 yards. Hit her tight behind her right shoulder and the bullet angled forward and exited her left shoulder where you can see the blood on her shoulder. Great performance! She staggered about 20 yards and dropped.

 

[Stid2677]

Well, since you will be hunting conventional and not up close I amend my choice and would go with the 180 AB.

Here are some I have recovered over the years. They can be hard on meat and hides, but they KILL.

Few recovered from game.

bleak Bear 200 yards or so.

Grizzly

Sheep

Remember I mentioned they can be fur UNFRIENDLY, especially "When the bullets hits the bones"..

Steve

 

[Dan11011]

Wow that is a lot of damage with the 180 AB. Meat damage isn't too big of an issue with this game as I likely won't be able to save it all. Accuracy for me with the 180g AB surprisingly wasn't great either. Grizzly with a 180 AB? impressive.

From your opinions it seems like I would be good to go with either a 165AB, 165Partition, 180AB, or 180 Partition as that 15 grains shouldn't change much and whichever is the most accurate should be the winner for bear and cougar. I haven't been very pleased with the Federal Premium ammo (feeding/ejecting issues) except with their Sierra Gamekings. I believe Nosler only loads the 165AB and 180AB out of these and Not the Partitions in 30-06 at these weights.

 

[Dan11011]

Now I'm interested in the Nosler E Tip. I guess I just cant shake my fascination with lead free bullets and the accuracy I got from the TTSX.

 

[6mm Remington]

Now I'm interested in the Nosler E Tip. I guess I just cant shake my fascination with lead free bullets and the accuracy I got from the TTSX.

My son has used it on several antelope, a couple mule deer, and that big cow! It performed pretty darn impressively in his 6mm Remington! I think you will like it. I just had a .280 Ackley Improved built and I've just begun load work. One of the bullets I'm going to try is the 140 gr. E-tip!!

 

[6mm Remington]

Just for you Dan. I've been really impressed with the E-tips. These are 100 gr. Partitions and 90 gr. E-tips out of my 6mm Remington into water jugs at 25 yards, 100 yards, 300 yards, and 400 yards. I skipped 200 because we can tell what it would look like. Maybe later I'll get to it but this gives a pretty good idea what to expect.





Trying to think why I never got the Partition at 300 yards. My bad.



Now a disclaimer here, the hours I put into testing bullet was pure..........................fun! Good practice too. Keeping them in jugs at 400 and 500 yards is a trick, and really good practice. Sure doesn't cost much money though and I thought it would be a great way to test expansion, weight retention, and penetration.