Blackhorn 209 and lead conicals Help Wanted

[Kylerjay05]

Hey guys, I'm looking for some reassurance that I didn't screw up too badly by listening to Knight Rifles rep. I purchased a Mountaineer a while back and they suggested purchasing Parker Productions 440gr Hydra-Con Conical bullets and using a volumetric charge of 110gr of Blackhorn 209. The bullet doesn't stabilize well and after doing a bit of my own research, I should be running around 85gr by volume for that bullet. Should I be concerned about damage to my muzzleloader since I shot 20 loads or so using that hot of a charge???

 

[HighUintas]

Yes. You've permanently scarred it by molesting it with non real BP! Jk

 

[Kylerjay05]

Yes. You've permanently scarred it by molesting it with non real BP! Jk

Not helpful.... lol taking my first 4 whitetails with a completely homemade longbow was primitive enough for me!

 

[Scoutfarm]

I doubt you’ve done any damage. I remember trying to shoot 460gr Power Punch conicals out of my White with 150gr of pyrodex. Terrible groups and elephant gun recoil.

I usually shoot 92gr pyrodex now when using my 460 conicals. Heavier charges with 300gr Hornady Sabots.

 

[Kylerjay05]

I doubt you’ve done any damage. I remember trying to shoot 460gr Power Punch conicals out of my White with 150gr of pyrodex. Terrible groups and elephant gun recoil.

I usually shoot 92gr pyrodex now when using my 460 conicals. Heavier charges with 300gr Hornady Sabots.

I hope you're right. I'd hate to think I damaged it somehow.

 

[5MilesBack]

I don't know about any damage, or how to tell.........but when I was working up a load with BH and 420gr No Excuses lead conicals, at 50 yards the shots were all over the place until I got down to about 70gr (volume), which still packs a punch.

 

[Kylerjay05]

I don't know about any damage, or how to tell.........but when I was working up a load with BH and 420gr No Excuses lead conicals, at 50 yards the shots were all over the place until I got down to about 70gr (volume), which still packs a punch.

Where did you start with your loads?

 

[5MilesBack]

100gr volume.

 

[Laelkhunter]

I looked at the Hydra-Con website, and can't tell by the pictures if that bullet is a hollow base or flat base. If it is a hollow base, it is possible the skirt of the bullet is blowing off of the bullet when it leaves the barrel. If that is happening, the accuracy will definitely suffer. Reduce the powder charge.

 

[TraderMike]

I would guess that your Mountaineer is fine. I have a Mountaineer as well and had some interesting experiences with BH209 and lead conicals. The load I settled on was CCI Magnum 209; 80 g volume BH209; veggie fiber card (wad); Bull Shop 460g conical sized .503. I never shot over a chrono for velocity but this load was doing under 2 inch groups at 100 and 4 inches at 200. The bullet dropped 14 inches at 200 yards with a 100 yard zero. Now for the interesting part....
I had inconsistent ignition with this load. Mostly on a clean barrel with the first shot but occasionally with a fouled barrel as well. I had a fellow custom make a 209 breechplug for me; Jeff at "Be Still Creations" is widely known in the smokeless custom muzzleloader community. I regard him as an expert in all things muzzleloader. What he shared with me was this... Black Horn 209 powder needs a tightly fitting projectile seated quite snug on the charge in order for consistent ignition. The soft nature of pure lead compromises the ability of the projectile to meet these requirements. Once the bullet engraves during the seating process of driving it down the bore, the bullet may not have the requisite "seal" or "tightness" to promote consistent ignition.
BTW, no need to pay 2$ per bullet for a quality lead conical. No Excuses and Bull Shop make excellent bullets at a fraction of that cost. Bull Shop will custom size at no additional expense, too. My White rifles like .504 and my Knight rifles prefer .503.
I don't use BH209 any longer. Triple7 and percussion caps work just fine for Colorado and lead conicals and I have never had a misfire since switching.... Good luck to you

 

[Kylerjay05]

I would guess that your Mountaineer is fine. I have a Mountaineer as well and had some interesting experiences with BH209 and lead conicals. The load I settled on was CCI Magnum 209; 80 g volume BH209; veggie fiber card (wad); Bull Shop 460g conical sized .503. I never shot over a chrono for velocity but this load was doing under 2 inch groups at 100 and 4 inches at 200. The bullet dropped 14 inches at 200 yards with a 100 yard zero. Now for the interesting part....
I had inconsistent ignition with this load. Mostly on a clean barrel with the first shot but occasionally with a fouled barrel as well. I had a fellow custom make a 209 breechplug for me; Jeff at "Be Still Creations" is widely known in the smokeless custom muzzleloader community. I regard him as an expert in all things muzzleloader. What he shared with me was this... Black Horn 209 powder needs a tightly fitting projectile seated quite snug on the charge in order for consistent ignition. The soft nature of pure lead compromises the ability of the projectile to meet these requirements. Once the bullet engraves during the seating process of driving it down the bore, the bullet may not have the requisite "seal" or "tightness" to promote consistent ignition.
BTW, no need to pay 2$ per bullet for a quality lead conical. No Excuses and Bull Shop make excellent bullets at a fraction of that cost. Bull Shop will custom size at no additional expense, too. My White rifles like .504 and my Knight rifles prefer .503.
I don't use BH209 any longer. Triple7 and percussion caps work just fine for Colorado and lead conicals and I have never had a misfire since switching.... Good luck to you

Very very helpful. Thank you for sharing this. I may just have to experiment with another powder.

 

[GMB54-120]

Try a poly wad with the conical and BH209. Plus get conicals sized about .002 over lands. Them poly wads seal tight. You can get small packs of them at Fury Custom bullet. He also sells full bore bullets for states that allow jackets but not sabots.

I use both Lehigh and Bestill plugs. Either ignites BH209 just fine but the Bestill is custom fit and uses a bushing instead of a vent liner. You can shim the Lehigh plugs easily to achieve the same thing.

 

[txhunter581]

My elk load is a 350 gr bullet and 90 gr BH 209 with one rifle and 85 gr of 777 and a 420 gr bullet in another. Lower your powder and I bet you get better results. Start at 80, shoot 3 times,then 85, 90, 95. Suspect you will find something with better accuracy in that