California "premium" zones

[WKR]

Whats the deal with these so called premium tags? Is the game management in CA just that bad?
After a scouting trip last week I just don't understand why the deer herds just aren't what they should be. My conclusion is the 3-5 point X zones are not better (if not worse) than the over the counter units. Yes there will be less tag holders but there is also alot less deer.

Is it the constant wildfires? Predation? Mismanagement?

What can we do to remedy this problem?

 

[jzeblaz]

Sad state of affairs for sure and you're probably right. I haven't held an X tag in ten years, except for a short time when I returned it do to the fires/smoke in the zone. I haven't had much success in the otc zones either. It's probably a lot of things, but poor management certainly can't be discounted. I'd like to see a few more doe hunts as well, but that seems pretty unlikely in the Golden State.

 

[cmahoney]

CA is managed for bears


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[jzeblaz]

CA is managed for bears


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And lions apparently.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

CA manages for lions mostly. What I mean by that is all their money for big game species goes to expensive radio collars and research surrounding cats. They care very little about deer.

We also give out two deer tags (which I love) and have insane unit caps that make no sense and are outdated to say the least.

Our main issue for all wildlife is habitat and drought. We need more wildlife crossings on our freeways and predator control. We have too many lions and bears IMO.

The long term doesn’t look good right now. I drew a lower tier X zone in 2020 and had success because I scouted a bunch and was in a remote area. Best thing about that tag was never seeing a sole scouting or hunting and killed a nice buck at 10k elevation in the rocks with an insane back drop. I would hunt that again in a few years. There are better OTC units for quantity and quality but not by much.

 

[David Gough]

Habitat, drought, and predators. Go kill a bear and save a few fawns.

 

[WKR]

Habitat, drought, and predators. Go kill a bear and save a few fawns.

I killed a sow last year so thats a few generations of fawns saved i hope.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Tons and tons of deer in over the counter zones on public land. Put in more time scouting and learn new areas.

 

[WKR]

Tons and tons of deer in over the counter zones on public land. Put in more time scouting and learn new areas.

Did you read the original post? I'm talking about the X zones that take multiple points to draw. I said they are worse than the otc units.
We have some great spots that produce every year in otc zones.
Learning new areas in the X zones is what the plan was but if its not any good why burn points.

 

[IH8Cali]

My anecdotal story: I loved my hometown in the Sierras: amazing deer, great fishing, and decent people. Drew out for my local map dot every other year or so for Archery, never wanted to wait long enough for rifle (Only a few miles from D zones with quality deer anyway). Then came all the freaking people. It used to only be on the weekends, and seasonally at that. I have no joking metaphor for how many people live their full time, it's not funny. It's over man, the high sierras of CA, and the deer they once held are gone.

Sure, there may be a few trickling in and out of newly built vacation subdivisions (or existing ones), but to find them you'll need to wade through the sea of hikers, MTBs, dog walkers, etc. The mass influx of people pushed the deer out. I had the police called on me while walking back from scouting. I had my spotter, a day pack, and a side arm...on NF land. The sheriff deputy that had to respond looked about as thrilled as I was, but somebody reported "a man with a gun that was watching hikers". It always comes down to people. We left the state.

 

[Calbuck]

Don't forget marijuana in the forest. They rape the land and leave shit all over their grow sites, and poach the game in the area. I live in an x zone and yes, its not like it used to be. But, there are still some good bucks out there.

 

[Ducks&Bulls]

Depends which X zones. Thats a lot of zones your talking about that go from Oregon to the desert dam near. Multiple factors which have been mentioned, but there are also thousands of vehicle kills a year as well. X zones should be 3 points on one side at least. Hunted one last year and we were on a bachelor group of 25 bucks multiple days and there were other bachelor groups in the same drainage. Not a high point zone either. Won't see that on public in OTC zones on public.

 

[Bubblehide]

3 points on one side was a failed practice in Ca years back. A whole lot of big forks were killed and abandoned.

There are some seriously nice big bucks that come from some of those low point X zones. You just need to know where to hunt.

 

[Ducks&Bulls]

3 points on one side was a failed practice in Ca years back. A whole lot of big forks were killed and abandoned.

There are some seriously nice big bucks that come from some of those low point X zones. You just need to know where to hunt.

Didn't know that. Just wish some people in X zone would quit killing 2 & 3 year old deer.

And agreed, a lot of it is actually just looking through good glass and putting the time in over summer to find them.

 

[Bubblehide]

Didn't know that. Just wish some people in X zone would quit killing 2 & 3 year old deer.

And agreed, a lot of it is actually just looking through good glass and putting the time in over summer to find them.

It is a bit more involved than that. For example, in the Serrias, there are deer on summer range year round. But the vast majority of the deer in a zone are migratory. So finding where they summer , does not mean they will be there during the season.

 

[PVHunter]

I'm more interested to meet the person who burnt 18 points on D6 last year.

 

[IH8Cali]

"Just wish some people in X zone would quit killing 2 & 3 year old deer"

Never going to happen, and why should it? Look at the price at your local gas station for example; a guy waits ~5 years on a tag, drops thousands for hunt (not including any scouting), and he's not supposed to pop a 3 year old buck that's going to be lion food anyway? Not sure I follow the logic.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

I'm more interested to meet the person who burnt 18 points on D6 last year.

It’s an accident and happens every year. The good news is they should be able to return the tab and have points reinstated, at least that’s the case for premium tags.

 

[Marble]

What has not been mentioned is logging and the Marijuana trade.

When the logging industry was able to clear land and manage for better natural habitat, deer were doing well. Very well. Nearly 900 deer in California in the early, mid 90s.

With Marijuana moving to every rural area, lots of people just shoot them year round, they take the water directly from deep ground wells, put poison around existing plants and poison other animals.

There was a very large paper I read about how helpful the logging industry was to assist deer populations. I have read one on Marijuana, it's just direct knowledge that I have seen.

I understand MJ is not grown state wide like in CA, it is only a small part of the overall problem.

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[Marble]

"Just wish some people in X zone would quit killing 2 & 3 year old deer"

Never going to happen, and why should it? Look at the price at your local gas station for example; a guy waits ~5 years on a tag, drops thousands for hunt (not including any scouting), and he's not supposed to pop a 3 year old buck that's going to be lion food anyway? Not sure I follow the logic.

I see the logic, let them grow to be bigger and better breeders.

Money woes with fuel, travel and time off do not even enter considerations for me. The cost to hunt and travel is out of control for DFG and not their concern.

But if you have hunted CA long enough, you would remember when the X Zones were all 3 point or better. The problem was forks were getting killed anyway. People would shoot first and then leave it dead it wasn't legal. Pretty common to see dead forked horn bucks back then.

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