Colorado Mule Deer B&C

[robby denning]

Who said that, when did they say it, where were they and where were you when they said it?

I don’t have a link, but I’ve heard that from multiple people, and Epic Outdoors podcast. I’d absolutely love to be wrong on this one.


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[wyo2track]

Looks like a full court press by CPW on CDW & testing for the entire western half of CO. Notice that mandatory testing takes in every area already near that 5% threshold and those that are not showing probably as they haven't done much testing yet. Areas already above the threshold their not testing. Looks like more than 50% of the area north of I-70 meets their thresholds. Those department employees are going to get good at removing lymph nodes this fall...holy smokes that's a lot of deer to sample!

 

[sndmn11]

I don’t have a link, but I’ve heard that from multiple people, and Epic Outdoors podcast. I’d absolutely love to be wrong on this one.


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I think it might be an effect of the change, but not THE cause. Elk hunters were the driving force behind the season changes, deer were and are an after thought.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

As far as the mandatory testing goes, can someone send me the link of instructions? If I harvest a buck in one of those units what all is needed for me to pack out, just the head? Bring to any CPW office? How come it doesn’t apply to elk?

 

[Rich M]

Took 15 minutes last season. They slice it open and take out the glands, do paperwork and you leave.

 

[orionthehunter1]

I think it might be an effect of the change, but not THE cause. Elk hunters were the driving force behind the season changes, deer were and are an after thought.

That might have been true for archery, but not rifle. Some of it was because CPW said a lot of sportsmen wanted longer breaks between seasons. The later seasons and tag increases also have to do with Chronic Wasting Disease CPW themselves has mentioned this at multiple meetings. This will be chicken little for our age structure and quality no matter what way you slice it. At least my Dad and I knocked down a few monsters over the years while we had world class hunting because its going to go downhill fast.

 

[sndmn11]

That might have been true for archery, but not rifle. Some of it was because CPW said a lot of sportsmen wanted longer breaks between seasons. The later seasons and tag increases also have to do with Chronic Wasting Disease CPW themselves has mentioned this at multiple meetings. This will be chicken little for our age structure and quality no matter what way you slice it. At least my Dad and I knocked down a few monsters over the years while we had world class hunting because its going to go downhill fast.

When I talked to one of the commissioners in my office as she was getting her yearly order in, I asked about considerations for deer. She said there was none between the commissioners and the focus was on the elk seasons. That's where my statement came from.

 

[ColoradoV]

I always wonder who even puts a deer in that book??

Real question as while I realize pry more than most how rare a b&c or p&y for that matter buck is - growing up in some of best big buck areas in the world I have seen my share that reach that level. I can honestly say I dont know one single person who has ever entered one in the book for a very good reason...

To answer if the book will see more entries or if more big bucks are killed is 2 separate things.. Definitely a fraternity up here that you will be kicked out of if your buck ever enters that silly "book"...

The short answer is yes a lot more big bucks will be killed a lot more up and comers will be killed and more forkies will be killed. Yes more deer will be killed with these season dates period.. In some geographic regions where the deer are on the sage flats (Gunnison basin & NW Colo) it will be a flat slaughter. Most hunters have to kill for some reason and when they cant find 170" or 160" or 140" they will bag a dink that is to stupid to even move from the road when chasing a doe on these later dates..

By the 4th in 2021 most of the damage will be done and yes it will take 5 years to recover. Will some good ones be killed sure but they will be few and far between.

 

[orionthehunter1]

Funny you posted that we have the same fraternity down here. People would be amazed and whats hanging in houses and barns down here that will never get any publicity.

 

[robby denning]

I think it might be an effect of the change, but not THE cause. Elk hunters were the driving force behind the season changes, deer were and are an after thought.

just found this reading the Herd Management Plan for South Grand Mesa. This language keeps popping up everywhere and is why I believe Colorado is allowing the later seasons (bold is related to the CWD discussion about lowering buck:doe ratios above):


If CWD is not already impacting the deer populationon the South Grand Mesa, it will likely spread there at some point given past trends throughout Colorado and North America. Eradication of CWD once present is unlikely, but strategies such as population reduction through hunting harvest and maintaining low buck:doe ratios appear promising to reduce prevalence (Miller and Fischer 2016). Despite the vast amount of research that has been conducted on this disease there are still many unknowns and new information is made available periodically. For more information about CWD and current maps of CWD prevalence in Colorado please visit http://cpw.state.co.us/learn/Pages/ResearchCWD.aspx.

 

[sndmn11]

just found this reading the Herd Management Plan for South Grand Mesa. This language keeps popping up everywhere and is why I believe Colorado is allowing the later seasons (bold is related to the CWD discussion about lowering buck:doe ratios above):


If CWD is not already impacting the deer populationon the South Grand Mesa, it will likely spread there at some point given past trends throughout Colorado and North America. Eradication of CWD once present is unlikely, but strategies such as population reduction through hunting harvest and maintaining low buck:doe ratios appear promising to reduce prevalence (Miller and Fischer 2016). Despite the vast amount of research that has been conducted on this disease there are still many unknowns and new information is made available periodically. For more information about CWD and current maps of CWD prevalence in Colorado please visit http://cpw.state.co.us/learn/Pages/ResearchCWD.aspx.

I'll ask Marie again next time she comes in and see if the answer changes. I think what you highlighted in bold could be done other ways and was already in practice in some areas.

 

[robby denning]

I'll ask Marie again next time she comes in and see if the answer changes. I think what you highlighted in bold could be done other ways and was already in practice in some areas.

I'd agree as Colorado's ramped up tags in quite a few units since the late 2010s, but there's some talk out there (I wish I had it, I'm sure I'm not imagining it) that the older age class bucks, 4+, are spreading CWD.

 

[sndmn11]

I'd agree as Colorado's ramped up tags in quite a few units since the late 2010s, but there's some talk out there (I wish I had it, I'm sure I'm not imagining it) that the older age class bucks, 4+, are spreading CWD.

There are a lot of units with a dozen or two doe tags and a few hundred buck tags. I don't know that later seasons automatically translate to older bucks being shot. I think it just means hunts will be shorter.. The unit I hunt that has turned out more big bucks; fewer encounters, but much bigger than before the change to many buck tags. It is interesting (hypocritical?) that staying out of the elk rut was used as reasoning to change some OTC archery units to draw, but we rifle hunt pronghorn during the rut and apparently now western deer.

 

[robby denning]

There are a lot of units with a dozen or two doe tags and a few hundred buck tags. I don't know that later seasons automatically translate to older bucks being shot. I think it just means hunts will be shorter.. The unit I hunt that has turned out more big bucks; fewer encounters, but much bigger than before the change to many buck tags. It is interesting (hypocritical?) that staying out of the elk rut was used as reasoning to change some OTC archery units to draw, but we rifle hunt pronghorn during the rut and apparently now western deer.

Sure.

But I do think over the next few years hunting these bucks later is gonna make a difference. The only way it won’t, is if they lower the number tags in the 3rd & 4th season.

And I’m not even saying that everybody’s going to shoot the big bucks, you’re just gonna see the success rate go up and as we take these younger bucks out of the herd, they’ll never make it to the four and five and six years level.

But Colorado is not my state, so who am I to judge.


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[idahohikker]

Sure.

But I do think over the next few years hunting these bucks later is gonna make a difference. The only way it won’t, is if they lower the number tags in the 3rd & 4th season.

And I’m not even saying that everybody’s going to shoot the big bucks, you’re just gonna see the success rate go up and as we take these younger bucks out of the herd, they’ll never make it to the four and five and six years level.

But Colorado is not my state, so who am I to judge.


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I listened to a podcast from the Rich Outdoors with a CO regional game manager that I found to be pretty informative. He discussed how the CWD research suggests older bucks are carriers and the goals of these new management plans are to bring buck to doe ratios closer to 20s out of 100 rather than current 30 to 40ish range depending on the unit. Given the fact that a fair number of units have private land on lower ranges that would provide some level of sanctuary, and assuming that deer ratios move into the 20s, with Colorado's quality habitat there would still be a pretty good number of big bucks running around IMO. I think it's easy to fall into assuming desolution--like myself and many of the Idaho guys did with wolves even though most areas wolves have made a significant but not huge impact on deer herds--and I question whether it will be a slaughter with few big bucks on the hill or more like a 30-40% decrease in older age classes. Not a Colorado guy so take this with a grain of salt. I'm just interested in hearing everyone's perspective on this, including Ol' Robby. Time will tell.

 

[orionthehunter1]

Some units have doubled their buck tag quotas for third and fourth rifle how can that not have an effect on mature deer???

 

[idahohikker]

Some units have doubled their buck tag quotas for third and fourth rifle how can that not have an effect on mature deer???

I don’t think anyone is saying there will be no effect. Some guys seem to think it will be an utter disaster and others don’t.

 

[HUNT JR]

There will be a drop of mature bucks in all units because of this I think. But, it will be a lot less obvious in some of the more rugged units throughout CO. The genetics are there, and CO will still produce B & C bucks even after these next 2 seasons. I think they will fall closer to the ID and WY numbers of entries over the next 10 years.

 

[orionthehunter1]

There is no doubt in my mind that our quantity and quality will both go down. It has changed drastically from the early 2000s to now and it will only get worse. Some guys have no idea how good it was here.

 

[Jimss]

The CWD deboggle is a bunch of CRAP....especially when the CPW says that there is a higher percentage iof CWD found n mature bucks. I live in the epicenter of CWD in Colorado. I don't know the exact numbers they came up with but it was something like 2% of the total deer population supposedly had CWD in the epicenter. If my memory is correct....of that 2% total there was a tiny fraction higher rate in mature bucks vs does. It doesn't take someone with a statistical background to figure out the differences are SO minute between doe and mature buck CWD numbers that there was no signifant statistic differences between the 2!

At the time when CWD was first discovered the CPW started targeting mature buck harvest via sharpshooters. The CPW tried to keep this "low-key" and I don't think many even know that this happened? Since that time they figured out that slaughtering mature bucks really didn't matter. The percentage of CWD deer are so low that coyotes and other predators kill the truly sick deer and it really wasn't worth the cost and hastle of targeting mature bucks.

I can honestly say that using CWD as an excuse to increase buck tags is a travesty to Colo muledeer. There is NO WAY decreasing mature bucks is going do anything to decrease the already miniscule rate of CWD in Colo. I am guessing Colo B&C listings will take a nose dive for years to come if the CDW doesn't remain conservative with tag numbers with later rifle season dates.

Colo's muledeer made a dramatic come-back after OTC deer tags were eliminated and it would be sad to see things return to the 80's and early 90's! If you hunted in Colo back in those years you know exactly what I'm talking about!