Day at the Range - Reloading Help

[gelton]

Just back from the range and working on developing this years reloading for the .300 Win Mag. I loaded three different powder charges at three different lengths with interesting results. I am already slightly over "max" load but not getting the velocity I was hoping for (~3150fps) Need help on where to go from here.

Equipment:

Gun - Weatherby Backcountry 300 Win Mag/24 Inch Barrel/1:10 Twist/Lands = 3.450
Bullet - 180 Grn Nosler Accubond
Powder - IMR 4350

Load # 1:
70 Grn 4350
COAL = 3.30
Avg Velocity = 2881 w/37 fps variance

Load # 2:
70.5 Grn 4350
COAL = 3.350
Avg Velocity = 2916 w/32 fps variance
*Most consistent, best groups by far.

Load # 3:
71 Grn 4350
COAL = 3.400
Avg Velocity = 2982 w/119 fps variance

It was windy today and I was more interested in velocity than accuracy so I stayed at the 50 yd target. The top square was 15 Rounds of load # 1 the middle square was 15 rounds of load #2, and the bottom square group ended up being tighter than 1 but not as tight as 2. As you can see #2 was the winner for consistent groups but the velocity kinda sucks and it is already over max by .5 grn, I was hoping for something close to 3150 fps. Accuracy or velocity? Where to from here?





P.S. I know that the books are based on SAAMI specs and each rifle is different regarding max loads. Also, the bullet and powder choices are based on the fact that I had plenty of both left over from reloading the 30.06 and wanted to develop this load until I run out of supplies and can start anew with powder and different probably heavier bullet type.

 

[Sam Millard]

I don't think you'll be able to get to 3150 with that set up. I would definitely try a slower powder like RL22, RL25, H1000, or IMR7828.

If you want to keep the factory 24" tube, I would find a load that spits out the 180s @ 2950-3000 accurately and keeps your ES down in the 20s at least.

215 Bergers are great 300 pills pushed by H1000, but most guys are running those through 26" or longer barrels to keep the velocity up.

 

[gelton]

I don't think you'll be able to get to 3150 with that set up. I would definitely try a slower powder like RL22, RL25, H1000, or IMR7828.

If you want to keep the factory 24" tube, I would find a load that spits out the 180s @ 2950-3000 accurately and keeps your ES down in the 20s at least.

215 Bergers are great 300 pills pushed by H1000, but most guys are running those through 26" or longer barrels to keep the velocity up.

Thanks for the quick reply, according to nosler, they got 3150 using the same powder(imr 4350) out of the same length barrel (24 inch hk precision) so the quandary is do Noslers like the jump I have with coal # 2 and should I stick w the crappy velocity due to accuracy or throw another grain to the mix to see what happens with the same length. Absolutely no pressure signs so far.

 

[Sam Millard]

You can try, especially if that's the powder you want/need to use, but 119 fps of ES over 15 shots is really, really bad Was there one very low velocity shot, or several oddballs?

All of the 300Win and 300 Wthby mags I've loaded 180s for shot the best in the 3000 fps range, with very low ES.

 

[Broz]

I would not get too tied up looking for the velocity. Accuracy at distance would be my preference. The accubonds are known to be plenty explosive up close so keep that in mind too. Not sure what your max range will be for hunting or what size game but I will toss out another vote for the 215 Bergers and H-1000 for a long range rig. Their BC is well above even the 210 long range accubond. The 215 Berger will flat stretch out elk from a 300 win.

Jeff

 

[gelton]

You can try, especially if that's the powder you want/need to use, but 119 fps of ES over 15 shots is really, really bad Was there one very low velocity shot, or several oddballs?

All of the 300Win and 300 Wthby mags I've loaded 180s for shot the best in the 3000 fps range, with very low ES.

I agree the 119 ES is TERRIBLE. I suspect it was because I was shooting at the bottom square on the target which put the bullets trajectory much lower and closer to the chrono than the other rounds were flying. I kinda chalk that up to chronograph issues.

As for the powder and bullet choice - I have 8lbs of IMR 4350 and (300)180 grnNosler Accubonds that are just going to waste away if I dont use them.

Broz - I will be hunting elk, hopefully 500 yds and in, but if needed will go further - 1000 yds and in with my current setup. Eventually will switch to a decent long range setup with a different scope and different bullet, probably 215 Bergers, but until I run out of my current setup I am in no hurry.

 

[Broz]

If you see 100 fps swings I will guess your chronograph is either a "Shooting Chrony" or it is closer than 18' from the muzzle. Or both. Try moving it out at least 18' where the muzzle blast does not shake the screens and see what you get.

I would be cautious of too much velocity and a 180 Accubond on elk under 500. Just my personal opinion.

Jeff

 

[gelton]

Chrono was 12 ft from muzzle. Powder dispenser was rcbs charge master pro with digi scale which is pretty dang accurate.

Also different sources show different max loads from 70-72 grains. Gonna try 71.5 grains and coal of 3.37 next. No real need to tinker much since this combo will not be my final solution anyway.

 

[Shrek]

Trade that imr 4350 and the bullets off and get the H1000 and burgers. Life will me much easier and satisfying. Trying to make square pegs go into round holes is frustrating.

 

[Broz]

Chrono was 12 ft from muzzle. Powder dispenser was rcbs charge master pro with digi scale which is pretty dang accurate. .

I will suggest again you move the chronograph out AT LEAST 18' from the muzzle. I have used many chronographs and still own 5. What I am offering comes from seeing it over and over.

I also use the chargmaster and find them to be very accurate so no problem there. I understand the problems getting proper components today and the fact you have these components already. I look almost daily and buy what I find when I find it. But I also understand and believe in stacking all the odds in my favor for my long range hunting load. You mentioned the possibility of taking a bull that may be between 500 and 1000 yards. For this shot the 215 Berger over H-1000 would bring much to the table. I personally feel way more than a 180 Nossler. Sam and I live with elk and we see many taken, that's why we prefer what we do. I don't mean that in a negative way. Just trying to help with what I believe in from what I personally have seen.

Good luck and shoot straight

Jeff

 

[gelton]

The main gripe I hear about Bergers are the long coal causing them to not fit mags. Mine is about 3.4 inches and my lands are 3.45. How far off the lands are y'all seating them and what is your go to powder and pet loads?

I am guessing you are referring to 215 Berger hybrids?

 

[Sam Millard]

http://www.rokslide.com/forums/showthread.php?15668-Long-Jumping-Berger-VLDs

 

[Broz]

The main gripe I hear about Bergers are the long coal causing them to not fit mags. Mine is about 3.4 inches and my lands are 3.45. How far off the lands are y'all seating them and what is your go to powder and pet loads?

I am guessing you are referring to 215 Berger hybrids?

Yes for the 300 win the 215 Berger Hybrid Target. My 300 win is setting 22 and 0 for one shot kills after last season. Deer elk and antelope.

In WW brass or brass of the same case volume start with 74 gr of H-1000 and work up. I like a FED 215 M primer but a CCi 250 or even a FED 210 could work. But I have a little concern of the 210 if temps get below zero.

I have seen these bullets shoot on the lands and off the lands. They are the new hybrid o-give design and should not be confused with the VLD. The Hybrid o-give was designed to be less sensitive to seating depths. My personal rifle is seated -.040" off the lands.

Jeff

 

[Broz]

Although it may be true that there are many good loads with the Bergers close to or touching the lands, don't take all you read on line to heart. Here is an article and method I have used and seen work right off the Berger web page.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/getting-the-best-precision-and-accuracy-from-vld-bullets-in-your-rifle/

Also know that there are tons of guys, including myself, that have and are using Bergers in Weatherby's as well ad many RUM chamberings. Both of these factory chambers employ free bore so the bullets are rarely seated close to the lands and some well over .200" off the lands. Yet still these bullet often group tighter than many other offerings, especially at longer distances where it counts.

Jeff

 

[gelton]

Finding H-1000 has been about as easy as finding a unicorn. I have found a source for RL 22 though. What would be your second choice for powder?

 

[Broz]

if you are going past 500 I personally would shy from the Rl22 for temp stability reasons. I see it swing 100 fps with a 40 to 50 degree ambient temp change.

I have used some H-4831 with 190 Bergers years ago before the 215's were out. But gave that up for the H-1000 and the 210's and never strayed from it until I loaded the 215's and seen smaller long range groups almost every time.

There has been some H-1000 surfacing up this way in the last week or two. I would think that some was also sent to other areas. So it might be worth having a fresh look under every rock. That is how I find what I need. It sux but I do find what I need when I look hard. I also work inside a network of friends that share when we can. That pays off big. I would also try offering up trading some of your H-4350 for H-1000 on line. Many more will be inclined to trade than sell if they need what you have. They may be able to get H-1000 to trade you with too.

Jeff

EDIT: my bad I see now you are using IMR 4350 and not H-4350. The IMR may not be as easy to trade. But worth a shot.

 

[AZ Vince]

I didn't have any luck with IMR 4350 with 180 pills in my .300 Win Mag.
Try dropping down in bullet weight, 165 grains or so, or changing to a slower burning powder if you want to push the 180's. Accuracy beats velocity any day. You can come up in clicks easier than you can make an inaccurate load be accurate.

 

[JustOneMoreShot]

Broz
Would Retumbo work in a 300WinMag pushing the 215 Berger Hybrids? Or will he run out of barrel? My RUM loves either Retumbo or H1000 and the 215 Berger Hybrids.

AZ Vince
I would not recommend dropping to a lighter projectile with worse BC if he is looking at ranges of 500-1000yards. Too much wind deflection.

 

[gelton]

Broz
Would Retumbo work in a 300WinMag pushing the 215 Berger Hybrids? Or will he run out of barrel? My RUM loves either Retumbo or H1000 and the 215 Berger Hybrids.

AZ Vince
I would not recommend dropping to a lighter projectile with worse BC if he is looking at ranges of 500-1000yards. Too much wind deflection.

I was looking at retumbo, I know where some is but am totally unfamiliar with it.

 

[JustOneMoreShot]

Retumbo is very similar to H1000. You can expect to see more fps using Retumbo in place of H1000. Some people complain that the Retumbo is more cantankerous when reaching the upper limits of pressure and can quickly spike pressure when you are at your rifles max so work up loads carefully as usual and dont get reckless.
You can try Hodgdon Reloading website and get different load data and look at Retumbo and compare it to H1000 for different bullet weights in the caliber you are shooting.
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
Good luck.